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Here is what I'm proposing, which would mean a ton of my current models would be shelved.

Can't decide if the Archmage should take High or Life magic.

Archmage, Lv 4, Book of Hoeth, Talis. of Pres., High Magic/Life Magic 320
Prince, Giant Blade, Enchanted Shield, Crown of Command, Barded Steed 287
Mage, lv1, Dispel Scroll, High Magic 110
Noble, BSB, Armor of Caledor, Great Weapon 149

CORE:
5 Reavers, Musician, Bows 105
5 Reavers, Musician, Bows 105
6 Silver Helms, Shields, Musician 148
6 Silver Helms, Shields, Musician 148
12 Archers 120 (lv1 here)

SPECIAL:
5 Dragon Princes, Full Command 175(Prince rides here)
20 Phoenix Guard, Full Command 330 (BSB and Archmage Here)
14 Swordmasters, Full Command 212

RARE:
1 Great Eagle 50
1 Frostheart Phoenix 240

Army total 2499


Alternately, if you have suggestions here is a list of what all I own:
2x 25 Spearmen w/ command
10 archers
2 Lion Chariots
10 Dragon Princes(5 old 5 new)
25 Phoenix Guard
5 Reavers
24 Swordmasters w/ Command
2 Great Eagles

Models I intend to buy either way:
Frostheart Phoenix
5 Shadow Warriors, 5 Sisters of Avelorn

So as you can see, this proposed list uses very little of what I currently own, but the model count is low enough not to cost an arm and a leg.

I need some serious help in working this out, as my initial ideas had me nearing 3k points which isn't generally played here.

High elves are still workable with your current model options.

There is nothing ineffective or weak about two spearelf blocks with blocks of Phoenix Gaurd and Swordmasters.

I would keep what you have and prioritise purchase of bolt throwers.

You only need a single rank of Dragon Princes because they begin to lose efficiency from the second rank. So you havent much cavalry.

If you want a cavalry army go ahead but consider it an option and something to add to the pool of units you possess, your infantyry list is perfectly good and could end up with a numbwer of decent builds, especially if magic heavy and with bolt throwers.

Get Island of Blood bitz for more Reavers and the Griffon. A cheap Griffon Noble will do well as support for either your infantry or cavalry list.

There are a few minor changes I would suggest:
1. Give your BSB a halberd so he maintains his re-rolls almost all the time.
2. Put the razor banner on the PG, much more choppy!
3. Prioritize getting some WLs, they are just that much better than the SMs in this new book.
4. Drop the SMs for the other 5 DPs or WL chariots. Higher ASs, almost same attacks, used for the same flanking roll.
5. Never a bad idea to put the ring of khaine on your keeper of the flame to get that extra soul quench and 3+ WS.
6. If you are considering life, take the everqueen and her banner. Hard to pass up +8 to cast life magic.

Just some suggestions!

Dan

furbyballer wrote:
There are a few minor changes I would suggest:
1. Give your BSB a halberd so he maintains his re-rolls almost all the time.

Agreed

furbyballer wrote:
2. Put the razor banner on the PG, much more choppy!

This is considered standard equipment in the metagame. That might be a reason not to from time to time.

furbyballer wrote:
3. Prioritize getting some WLs, they are just that much better than the SMs in this new book.

Are you going to buy them for him? When someone gives a model inventory its a sign they want to use what they have got. Advice to completely replace an expensive in money unit with another expensive in money unit is utterly glib, especially when the differences are relatively minor.
Yes White Lions are better in deployments deeper than one rank, but Swordmasters will certainly make do.

furbyballer wrote:
4. Drop the SMs for the other 5 DPs or WL chariots. Higher ASs, almost same attacks, used for the same flanking roll.

White lion chariots would be a good idea, but for a flank unit Swordmasters are considerably better than dragon Princes. dragon Princes only offer impact, if that is what you want just take the chariots. Swordmasters offer a sustained push on the flank so you arent left with just one shot to do damage in the flank and turn a combat. In fact its what Swordmasters are best at.

furbyballer wrote:
5. Never a bad idea to put the ring of khaine on your keeper of the flame to get that extra soul quench and 3+ WS.

I would love to agree but check the army book carefully. Champions are restricted to magic weapons only, with exception of ther Drakemaster, who can take armour. I would give a champion the Ironcurse Icon in a heartbeat.

furbyballer wrote:
6. If you are considering life, take the everqueen and her banner. Hard to pass up +8 to cast life magic.
Just some suggestions!
Dan

On one unit only, it will deny the BSB magical protection other than from the spells and more or less mandates a deathstar build which isnt the setup here.
Besides +8 is a gimic. Life Magic spells except for Dwellers are cheap enough to be cast on +4 on 2d6, casting on 1d6 runs risks of instant fail no matter the casting bonus which will dry up the Everqueen. Dwellers doesn't benefit of course.
Alarielles BSB looks really good but actually its pretty useless, its true value is in making dispels more expensive, a good bonus I agree but not worth a BSB banner. To be worth taking for a BSB a standard needs to be really spectacular, this one doesnt cut it.

Not a bad list. There's a fair few changes you should make though.

Firstly, drop the Prince. In a unit of a mere 5 models, he will be destroyed with unparalleled ease. He's an expensive general, in a unit of 5 T3 things. All your opponent needs to do is take out one Dragon Prince and then Cannon-snipe your Prince. Or he could just wipe the unit with normal fire. If you want to run a Dragon Prince Bus, you'd need at least 10 DPs, if not 15.

5 DPs can work as a flanking unit, but you have your Silver Helms for that. You could combine the two Silver Helm unit and still run the Dragon Princes, that could work.

Seeing as they are your only infantry blocks, your PG and Swordmasters are far too small in size/number. The points you've gained from dropping the Prince will but you another identical unit of Swordmasters and another 5 Phoenix Guard. Speaking of the Phoenix Guard, do NOT put both your BSB and Lvl 4 in the same unit, it's too tempting of a target for the enemy, especially through the use of spells such as Dwellers.

Other than the aforementioned Prince, your characters look pretty good. I'd definitely run Life on the Level 4, but High is good on the Level 1. Speaking of the Level 1, see if you can get the points for a Lvl 2 upgrade. However, your BSB's setup isn't great. That same setup was fantastic before but, with this book, it's not. I would go with the Shield of the Merwyrm, the Biting Blade/Blade of Might. A 4+/4++ with ASF is better than 2+/6++ without ASF.

As a side note on the "Models I intend to buy either way", I wouldn't bother assembling 5 Shadow Warriors. They're really not great and their roles are better fulfilled by Eagles or Reavers. That said, the models are very, very cool, so if that's your reason for it, go ahead!

Much thanks for all the advice. Ulthuan.net can be difficult to get feedback from on 2500 point lists I've noticed.

I'll post a revised list using mainly what I own and see how that goes. I may go the way of my 7th edition lists and just run 3 characters: 2 mages and a BSB. It would free up enough points for another elite infantry unit.

Would Talisman of Endurance/Enchanted Shield be a better build for the BSB if he runs with the LV1 in a spear unit?



Here is my revision:

Archmage, Lv 4, Book of Hoeth, Talis. of Pres., High or Life Magic 320
Mage, Lv2, Dispel Scroll, Khaines Ring, High Magic 170
Noble, BSB, Dragon Armor, Sword of Striking, Enchanted Shield, Talis. of End. 149

CORE:
25 Spearmen, Command, Banner of Eternal Flame 265
25 Spearmen, Command 255
5 Reavers, Musician, Bows 105

SPECIAL:
5 Dragon Princes, Musician 155
24 Phoenix Guard, Command, Razor Standard 435
14 Swordmasters, Command 212
* 10 Swordmasters 130

RARE:
Great Eagle, Swiftsense 60
Frostheart Phoenix 240
* 9 Sisters of Avelorn 126


* I can't decide which of these to run, as I feel they both have merit.
Luckily I intend to buy the Sisters anyway, and I already own the extra 10
Swordmasters, so I could swap them out in any case.

I'd take the 9 sisters if you have other shooting. Otherwise their flaming bows aren't as effective as they could be.

 Aerethan wrote:
Much thanks for all the advice. Ulthuan.net can be difficult to get feedback from on 2500 point lists I've noticed.

Dakka is best for feedback.

 Aerethan wrote:

I'll post a revised list using mainly what I own and see how that goes. I may go the way of my 7th edition lists and just run 3 characters: 2 mages and a BSB. It would free up enough points for another elite infantry unit.

Level 4 level 2 and BSB is pretty much the standard nowadays, if you get bored with it consider a Loremaster as alternate Lord choice.

 Aerethan wrote:

Would Talisman of Endurance/Enchanted Shield be a better build for the BSB if he runs with the LV1 in a spear unit?

I would take Reaver Bow, and shield of the Merwyrm. You get a 4++ in melee, look out sir otherwise and a nasty bow. You could finish off with Ironcurse icon.

 Aerethan wrote:

Here is my revision:

Archmage, Lv 4, Book of Hoeth, Talis. of Pres., High or Life Magic 320
Mage, Lv2, Dispel Scroll, Khaines Ring, High Magic 170
Noble, BSB, Dragon Armor, Sword of Striking, Enchanted Shield, Talis. of End. 149

Covered above.

 Aerethan wrote:

CORE:
25 Spearmen, Command, Banner of Eternal Flame 265
25 Spearmen, Command 255
5 Reavers, Musician, Bows 105

Ok. Notice that the 105pt listed unit has spears and bows (as covered with Isle of Blood miniatures), you you ditch the spears you save 10 points.
Banner of Eternal Flame is situation Standard of Discipline is very useful especially if you put your general in the unit.

 Aerethan wrote:

SPECIAL:
5 Dragon Princes, Musician 155
24 Phoenix Guard, Command, Razor Standard 435
14 Swordmasters, Command 212

Happy with that I see here. You have Swordmasters to add insurance to your S5 flanking attacks by remaining S5 in future combat rounds while Dragon Princes bring the potential resilience of 2+ saves.

 Aerethan wrote:

RARE:
Great Eagle, Swiftsense 60
Frostheart Phoenix 240

Your Great Eagle doesn't need any upgrades, anything that needs ASF against is probably a poor choice of target. Eagles really aren't there to fight against anything that can effectively hit back.
The exception is to use a unit of two Eagles give them both swiftsense and fly them in a column, fly them into a mage for assassination runs, they aren't characters so the mage cant avoid combat, so you get plenty of 4+ S4 ASF attacks. It costs as much as the enemy wizard but can really shut things down.

 Aerethan wrote:

* 10 Swordmasters 130
* 9 Sisters of Avelorn 126
* I can't decide which of these to run, as I feel they both have merit.

I would take the Sisters, you have enough Swordmasters and can do with some firepower.

Excellent feedback, much thanks