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So I've already adjusted some of his upgrades (swapped out a tank, dropped a couple of upgrades, added them elsewhere, etc.) and helped him with some units here and there, but I haven't run a list quite like this. Any advice for him?

HQ:
Azrael: 215
Librarian in terminator armor (Divination for the re-rolls): 95 (Going with the terminators in the LRC for re-rolls on assault)

Elites:
Dreadnought w/Assault Cannon, PF w/Heavy Flamer: 130
in Drop Pod w/deathwind launcher and locator beacon: 60

Troops:
5x Deathwing Terminator Squad with CML: 245
in Land Raider Crusader w/H/K missile, Dozer, MM, SB Deathwing Vehicle: 310
6x Ravenwing Attack Squadron w/2 Plas guns: 191
5x Scout squad w/sniper rifles and camo cloaks: 70
10x TAC squad w/Power Sword: 155
in Rhino w/H/K missile: 50
10x TAC squad: 145
in Rhino w/H/K missile & SBolter: 55

Heavy:
5x Devastator Squad w/4 ML: 130
Whirlwind w/H/K Missile: 75
Whirlwind w/H/K Missile: 75

So how does that look? I believe he's getting better at list writing, but he still hasn't played a 2k game yet. I mean, I just played my first over 1.5k on Wed/Thurs. But, considering the models we have, I think he made an interesting list for a 2k list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
EDIT: it's an all-comers list, but he will probably end up playing Orks, Tau, Eldar, IG or other Space Marines (lots of chapters).

Hey! I'd make the devistators all missile, I don't think they need the HBs to take on infantry what with frags and divination. Really I'm not a space marine player but that unit seems too unfocused for me, hope it helps,

best of luck

Maxipad

That makes sense, I think he's used to playing against my Dark Eldar (where a HB has a good shot of shooting down a boat for 10pts at 3 shots each). Thanks for pointing that out!

EDIT: Fixed.

It's pretty good.

For me an all comers list comes down to a balance of what's strong and what you want to field.

I would suggest if it's all comers to maybe drop 1 of the ww, add a few members to the devastator squad (so they can take a few casualties before losing firepower - missiles are better) (if you do drop a WW, make the LRC a Hv. Support, so it can score in "Big guns never tire" scenarios - assuming you play them

Drop the storm bolters on vehicles, and maybe drop the HKM on the LRC, that's personal preference, but those small points add up to something more shiny!

Personally if I had that much scoring I would consider dropping a squad for some Landspeeders or Black Knights. Which I feel are among the best units in the codex.

Finally, if you've managed to shave enough points from Stormbolters, the hunter killer (and even the deathwind launcher) and stuff off of vehicles, then grab a couple TH/SS for the termies (personally I would go for all 5 - remember the CML can have TH/SS for DW).

I'm not sure if you're limited to these models, but if I'm rolling in an LRC, I like to have Deathwing Knights inside. They're dirty coming out of a raider.

My only major criticism of the list as a whole is that the troops section lacks focus.

It seems undecided on DW or RW. It basically means he/she isn't taking advantage of either, but rather just taking the weaknesses of both.

Example:
DW works(ish) because 2+ saves are hard to deal with en mass. However with just 5, that's much less of an issue. Point a few plasma guns their way and they're dealt with.
RW works because you have an entire force thrown down your opponents mouth almost immediately. Couple this with banner of Dev and you're pumping out a lot of shooting. Here though, again they're nice an compartmentalised for me to aim my transport killing weapons at and my cover save ignoring weapons at without me breaking a sweat.

Green wing support is fine, but the highly specialised troops work far better when there is a lot of them.

Thanks for your input everyone!

As far as the models, yes, we're pretty limited to what we got on the cheap from Dark Vengeance. He wants to run a bigger point game (I keep trying to tell him that just because the game is bigger and with more models just means you'll probably get one game in a couple of hours instead of a few smaller games and it's more difficult the higher the points, but reasoning with a 9-year-old proves to be difficult sometimes).

I totally see why he has been losing when it comes to bigger scale games and winning on smaller-scale now. He tends to love high armor values and saves for days, but in bigger games that leads to low model count. I talked him into the TAC squads to try to cover that, and he thought it would be fun to run the bikes for the firepower. He usually wants to run 10-15 (we only have 15!) terminators, but that's a good chunk of points in a game when he doesn't own any knights. If it were up to him, he would drop the TAC squads and scouts to run more terminators and Land Raiders (he has two because of a great deal we found at the FLGS) and Whirlwinds or Vindicators for infantry counters.

So given all of this, how viable is Azzy, Deathwing and Greenwing? Losing the bikes only frees up 191 points, but without the bikes he could run more TACs/terminators to get more specialized in these areas. Also, he's probably not going to enter a tourney for a looooong time, so proxies work just fine if it would make sense for him to run models we don't have. We have that terminator librarian if Belial would make more sense for his list and dropping the bikes (plus, Belial would be easier to proxy than Azrael, who we would probably end up buying a new model for).

Anyways, I'm rambling, so I'll just say thanks for the feedback, and I'll pass the info along as my own sagely advice.

Well it's good to see that he's playing what he likes rather than falling into the net-list trap already. DW don't do great in a competitive environment, but I doubt that's how you play from what you're saying.
Belial is good because of his no scatter deep strike and the ability to take TH SS and Azreal only really comes into his own when he's got a big blob of guard as a well...guards. I think belial is slightly cheaper too.

If he wants to run landraiders, I think green wing is the best way to go. Landraider crusaders with a librarian or techmanrine inside with the power field generator for 4++ makes them impossible to kill. Add in a command squad for the banner and you have an indescribable fortress with twin linked salvo 4 bolters. They put out some serious shooting and rarely die.

How well do squad sizes of 6-8 work of terminators? We're about to get 5 more, and I think he wants to stagger in more termies because of that. But, since they're 20 DV termies and two of them got CML thrown on their backs, we can't run every model as is.

So would a squad with a Sgt with a power sword, 2 normal termies, a couple of chainfists and a special weapon unit with either a CML or Assault Cannon work out? I like them in units of 5 or 10, but I've never run a mid-sized squad.