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I'm certain that this has been before.

I would like help understanding the different roles that a Predator fills when armed with either Lascannons, Autocannon, or some combination of both.

I've looked at the range versus strength differences of each, and the choice between the two (Las or AC) seems like a wash. I don't think this is right, so I'm hoping for some help with what the different weapons choices make the Predator more or less effective at.

If there is an existing thread that will help my dim bulb get brighter, I'd appreciate a link. If not, explain away!

Thanks.

Predators with autocannon turrets and lascannon or heavy bolter sponsons are the best options. Compare a TL lascannon to an autocannon against common AV values.

Against AV10 the TL lascannon gets .88 damage results and the autocannon gets .88 damage results
Against AV11 the TL lascannon gets .74 damage results and the autocannon gets .66 damage results
Against AV12 the TL lascannon gets .59 damage results and the autocannon gets .44 damage results
Against AV13 the TL lascannon gets .44 damage results and the autocannon gets .22 damage results

Considering how expensive the upgrade to the TL lascannon is in most of the books, I don't think it is worth it for a meager improvement. Yes, you get more penetrating hits which are not included in my analysis but in my experience most vehicles are destroyed with hull points rather than pens anyway.

Now for sponsons the lascannons are a significant upgrade from the heavy bolters if you plan on using your Predator in an anti-vehicle role against anything but AV10 but they are a sizeable cost and are still serviceable against AV10 and infantry. If you are playing C:SM then a Thunderfire Cannon fills the role of a Dakka Pred (autocannon and heavy bolters) better, though, so the only really good option to take is the Autolas model.

And this is why I made mine fully magnetized

With hull points and auto cannons getting multiple shots, lascannons are not really worth the upgrade anymore due to the huge points cost. Depending on what you're planning though, they may or may not be worthwhile to consider.

A stock predator is a steal for the points. He problem is that they take up a heavy support slot so you end up havi to upgrade them. By the time you get them kitted to where they're worth using a heavy support slot,they're extremely expensive and still not amazingly effective at what they do.

Pack as many lascannons as you possibly can on every predator. The Ap2 makes the lascannon VASTLY better against everything but Sv4+ or worse. If you're worried about Sv4+ or worse, just take more bolters/heavy flamers/assault cannons, etc. etc.

Space marines have WAY too many ways to thin out hordes to bother bringing a predetor with an autocannon or heavy bolter sponsons. Meanwhile, the ability to handle enemy vehicles or monstrous creatures at range is going to be much more useful, and that's before you consider that they're better against terminators, and fliers, and anything that IDs on S8+, and Sv3+, and, and, and...

Having basically three guaranteed lascannon hits per turn is amazing. Having only a couple of autocannon hits per turn is a crime against your codex.

Make them with lascannons, and if you ever pang regret, you can buy heavy bolter devastators for VERY cheap (for a reason...)

What I did is using only boring predator (no spons weapon). 80 pts (more or less, don't have the codex with me) for an autocannon and a av13 is good for me.

But why? A rifleman dreadnought gives you nearly THREE TIMES as many autocannon hits for only 50% more in cost.

 Ailaros wrote:
But why? A rifleman dreadnought gives you nearly THREE TIMES as many autocannon hits for only 50% more in cost.

And also occupies a different FOC slot. You take cheap HB/AC Predators because they're cheap and efficient and you have empty heavy support slots, not as a primary shooting unit.

 Ailaros wrote:
But why? A rifleman dreadnought gives you nearly THREE TIMES as many autocannon hits for only 50% more in cost.

I also understand that the Dread and Pred are designed for different things.

A Dread is the next step up from a Terminator, mostly intended to wade in to battle and smash face. Using them as gun turrets is not exploiting their full tactical capability, since the Predator can do the job of long range support for fewer points.

Anyway, that's what I got from what I read. I apologize for not being able to cite individual threads.

I appreciate everybody's help. I think I'm going to go with the Auto/Las Predators. I have a fair balance between horde control and AV-killers. It has been mentioned, and I have seen myself, that one-shotting vehicles is statistically unlikely. I would rather spread my points out so that those opposing heavies have fewer big things to shoot at while I'm scraping their armor away.

Thanks again!

 Shorttime wrote:
A Dread is the next step up from a Terminator, mostly intended to wade in to battle and smash face. Using them as gun turrets is not exploiting their full tactical capability

That's the fluff. Unfortunately the rules do not live up to the fluff, and dreads are terrible at close range and even worse in assault. The only way to use them effectively is as long-range gun platforms, usually with 2x TL AC.

since the Predator can do the job of long range support for fewer points.

It really can't. A single AC does not even come close to 2x TL ACs in firepower, and plain Predators are unlikely to accomplish very much. And once you add proper guns to the Predator it's no longer cheaper than the AC dread.

The real reason you take Predators is as cheap gun platforms so you don't have empty heavy support slots. AC/HB is still cheap and gives you some reasonable shooting and a piece of AV 13 mobile terrain. If you have anything better to take you won't hesitate to dump the Predators, but if you've got the slots free they're a good way to fix the problem.

Anyway, that's what I got from what I read. I apologize for not being able to cite individual threads.

I think I'm going to go with the Auto/Las Predators. I have a fair balance between horde control and AV-killers.

A single AC is not horde control. You average 1.3 hits with a single BS 4 AC compared to 0.9 hits from the TL LC turret, which is not a meaningful difference. If you want horde control you take AC/HB. If you want anti-tank you take LC/LC.

Auto/HB preds are okay at against hordes, but there are better options for that. I really only field my predators with all lascannons. Costs a bit but they work for me, plus here's me hoping the price will drop to 140 when a new book comes out. On the point of hull points though, I always find it strange how people say you're more likely to kill them by stripping hull points than anything. Yes that's true if you're shooting with HBs or ACs, but the majority of the time my tri-las preds finish with an explosion. I think that overall with the introduction of hull points, people are just looking to go for something that kills off glances that also has a decent ROF to touch infantry. IMO autocannons aren't that good in marines, they cost too much and have very limited availability where better options are present. Leave autocannons to IG I say, they can make good use of them.