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Just wondering whether this combo is as good as it sounds. 2 Runes of Battle powers(at the least you'll get Shrouded for Scorpions in addition to Stealth, at the most you'll have 2+ save Striking Scorpions) are great and can really boost the effectiveness of the unit. I'm thinking that such a unit in conjuction with troop WG, possibly with a D-flamer in a Serpent and a Solitaire Autarch suitably equipped for combat would work extremely well together, as the enemy is supressed by two FPs, Warp Spiders and a squad of Scatterwalkers from afar and pushed back by WG, Scorpions and the Autarch.

I know I can't infiltrate the Spiritseer with the unit, but I can outflank them together, correct? And 2+ save Scorpions(or +1 S or extra run) with 2+ cover saves seem a pretty great buy for such a relatively small points cost.

What do you guys think? And please tell me if this combo couldn't work, my BRB is at my friend's and I can't check all the rules for USRs.

The one issue to look into is I don't think you can cast Conceal after you move onto the table from Outflanking.

I don't have my books with me either, but I don't think you can cast Conceal on the turn you arrive either as you have to be on the board at the start of the turn to cast it.

If you can outflank the squad into some cover on the turn they arrive, cast the powers on the next turn and go to town.

I too am looking at spirit seers for psychic shenanigans they are so much more versatile than warlocks and the runes of battle seem a lot better than runes of fate imo.

The problem is that most top-tier builds ignore cover and crush anything without an invuln save, (Riptides, Scytheguard, Pinkstar) and most top tier melee units crush Scorpions in combat (BT, DPs, Khorne Hounds, Wraiths, Black Knights) and outflank means you won't get a charge off until turn three, possibly four. Not viable.

It's a blessing, so thats start of the turn. So yeh it needs to be on the board first.

Where would this 2+ cover save come from anyways? Conceal would give a 5+ in the open.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
The problem is that most top-tier builds ignore cover and crush anything without an invuln save, (Riptides, Scytheguard, Pinkstar) and most top tier melee units crush Scorpions in combat (BT, DPs, Khorne Hounds, Wraiths, Black Knights) and outflank means you won't get a charge off until turn three, possibly four. Not viable.

Ignore cover is a problem, but I can always choose not to outflank them if I'm playing against anyone that easily ignores it, instead putting the Seer in the WG unit and putting Scorpions on babysit of my home objective. Also, I can choose not to take Conceal, instead rolling on two of the other powers if this is the case. The point of this unit isn't to fight other dedicated CC units. I'll shoot those down with Warpspiders and WWs. I'm Eldar. I don't go toe-to-toe when I'm outmatched. I hide and stalk and shoot stuff that is good at cc and cc stuff that is good at shooting.

Besides, my linebreaker unit here are supposed to be the D-flamer Wraithguard. And they simply can't be in the middle/far end of the board alone. They'll get tarpited or small-arms-fired to death. Scorpions are there to run amok through parking lots of certain armies if possible AND to guard Wraithguard when they advance on the opponent's objective. I don't need them to make their points back, I just need them to help other units win theirs.

But thanks for pointing out units I have to watch out for. That's useful knowledge right there!

Stealth from the scorpions(I think they have it) shrouded from the warlock, and basic 5+ from being in cover.

Also remember even if outflanking I don't think the spirit seer can join the infiltrators. You decide if they are outflanking when you would deploy them at the infiltration step. Since the spiritseer can't join them at this point I don't think they can go together.

Now I might be wrong but can someone correct me on this?

 warpspider89 wrote:
Where would this 2+ cover save come from anyways? Conceal would give a 5+ in the open.

Scorpions have Stealth by default. So 4+ cover in the open. And when was the last time you played on a board that had more than 5 inches between their terrain? I didn't since 6th hit the tabletop.

Conceal improves the cover save.
Stealth and Shrouded get 4+, so that makes 2+.

 Araenion wrote:

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
The problem is that most top-tier builds ignore cover and crush anything without an invuln save, (Riptides, Scytheguard, Pinkstar) and most top tier melee units crush Scorpions in combat (BT, DPs, Khorne Hounds, Wraiths, Black Knights) and outflank means you won't get a charge off until turn three, possibly four. Not viable.

Ignore cover is a problem, but I can always choose not to outflank them if I'm playing against anyone that easily ignores it, instead putting the Seer in the WG unit and putting Scorpions on babysit of my home objective. Also, I can choose not to take Conceal, instead rolling on two of the other powers if this is the case. The point of this unit isn't to fight other dedicated CC units. I'll shoot those down with Warpspiders and WWs. I'm Eldar. I don't go toe-to-toe when I'm outmatched. I hide and stalk and shoot stuff that is good at cc and cc stuff that is good at shooting.

Besides, my linebreaker unit here are supposed to be the D-flamer Wraithguard. And they simply can't be in the middle/far end of the board alone. They'll get tarpited or small-arms-fired to death. Scorpions are there to run amok through parking lots of certain armies if possible AND to guard Wraithguard when they advance on the opponent's objective. I don't need them to make their points back, I just need them to help other units win theirs.

But thanks for pointing out units I have to watch out for. That's useful knowledge right there!

What do Striking Scorpions do that Scytheguard don't do better? Besides look green and mean.

I'm actually interested in attaching Spiritseers to large units of Wyches. They should benefit greatly from the psychic powers, combat drugs, and pain tokens.

I've been thinking about Karandras, and a spiritseer, in a unit of banshees. 2+ cover on those girls... i guess im just trying to make them work.

Too many points. Way too many. And 4+ save really hurts them. They are a bit faster on foot, though.

I've had another idea. Instead of the Mantle Autarch, I'm thinking of fielding Karandras and putting him in a Scorpion unit. And the Spiritseer is riding in the WS with 5 Wraithguard. That could be very interesting. I'm just worried about Karandras being so slow, which doesn't work as well for the army I had in mind.

And what can Scorpions do that Wraithblades can't? Well...outflank/infiltrate, for one. Cheaper, for the other. Three times as many attacks also. WB are a tarpit unit, not very killy. If I had an Avatar, I'd roll with them for sure. But I need something that can realiably kill stuff in assault and counter assault.

 Gangrel767 wrote:
I've been thinking about Karandras, and a spiritseer, in a unit of banshees. 2+ cover on those girls... i guess im just trying to make them work.

Swap banshees for incubi and maybe karandras for drazhar or an Archon. Then maybe.

I was thinking 2 Incubi Units with Haemonculi and Spirit Seer on foot with two units of Wraith Guard to screen, again with Spirit seers. Then wracks in venoms and/or ravagers for the rest of the points. Using Iyanden sup obvs.

Karandras with the SS is probably the better option. Correct me if I am wrong I don't think you could have a Mantle Autarch join the SS because the Mantle takes away the IC special rule.

Sorry if I mislead you, I didn't mean joining him with them. I meant working in concert with them. His speed allows him to be on one side of the board assaulting something, then turbo boosting on the other side in one turn and assaulting something else. I love this kind of maneuverability and given that he's one model, no one will be able to see him, unless they require no LoS and sport an extreme range(like Nightspinner, for instance). But against those units, I can always hide in reserve till I deal with them. In a perfect world, that is, hehe.

I say go for it with the Spiritseer and Scorpions for a few games. I hadn't thought of it, and the Runes of Battle are pretty nice powers that could take Scorpions, who are already killy on their own, and bump them up a notch. Yes it's too bad you can't infiltrate the Seer, and yes he would have to wait till the turn after he arrived from Outflanking to cast Conceal. There is no perfect combo, otherwise everybody would run only that to beat face. You could start with them on the board and run them up the field from cover to cover with the Conceal, maybe your opponent would be dumb enough to waste shots on the 2+ cover save unit running at them, rather than something else moving into position elsewhere.

 Homeskillet wrote:
I say go for it with the Spiritseer and Scorpions for a few games. I hadn't thought of it, and the Runes of Battle are pretty nice powers that could take Scorpions, who are already killy on their own, and bump them up a notch. Yes it's too bad you can't infiltrate the Seer, and yes he would have to wait till the turn after he arrived from Outflanking to cast Conceal. There is no perfect combo, otherwise everybody would run only that to beat face. You could start with them on the board and run them up the field from cover to cover with the Conceal, maybe your opponent would be dumb enough to waste shots on the 2+ cover save unit running at them, rather than something else moving into position elsewhere.

to help compensate for the lack of infiltrate, you could still pack them in a waveserpent. and then move 6" in the WS, 6" disembarking, and a fleet run... this should bring you close to where you would disembark anyways. it should most definitely be able to get you into ruin cover, or 2+ cover for those scorpions. (stealth and shrouded) Plus the spiritseer may roll the +3" to your run power, which would help as well.