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So, as the title says, I have two Skaven list ideas that I am messing around with. Any suggestions would be most welcome, as well as a vote as to which one looks better.

Edited to Adjust list Two.

Edited again to reflect new list.

So, this is the current version of the list, any suggestions from here?

Lords 505
Grey Seer with Screaming Bell, Skalm, Power Scroll 505

Heroes 322
Chieftan with BSB, Charmed Shield, Talisman of Endurance, Halberd 107
Warlock Engineer with Wizard Level 1, Doom Rocket, Warp Energy Condenser 115
Warlock Engineer with Wizard Level 1, Dispel Scroll 90

Core 1051
Stormvermin x42 with Shields, Full Command 361
Clanrats x30 with Shields, Full Command, Warpflame Thrower 225
Clanrats x30 with Shields, Full Command, Warpflame Thrower 225
Skavenslaves x30 60
Skavenslaves x30 60
Skavenslaves x30 60
Skavenslaves x30 60

Rares 620
Hell Pit Abomination 235
Hell Pit Abomination 235
Doomwheel 150

First list is lacking magic and i've heard ikit claw is a bit over-costed.

The second list has a vermin lord and supposedly people don't use him as for cheaper you can get a grey seer on a screaming bell which can do more for your army. To make the vermin lord worth it's points you have to be casting magic and getting him to hit combat with specific units i'm betting. He has really good movement and terror which is nice but he could get destroyed in combat very easily. Also i'd probably take skaven plague magic on him if anything. At least that way you can cast magic into combats he enters. Basically if i used him it'd be on the side-lines as a flanker, somebody that runs down skirmishers and flanking units and somebody that attacks war machines and their crew. He should be good at that in theory but he's a big target since he'll be doing that.

Not sure why you'd take a chieftain without a BSB either.

------------

Oddly enough i'd think i'd go for list 2. Queek is nice and all but you'll need magic. I'd probably drop a couple things myself in the way of that combat based chieftain (normally people take BSB chieftains that are harder to kill rather than anything killy). I suppose your point is you want to use him for leadership purposes or more likely to accept challenges. Normally where you can it's best to accept challenges with champions if at all possibly or to do verminous valor if you really don't want to fight combat (you can choose who goes to the back of the unit. I'm also a fan of warpfire throwers so there ya go. Queek and his special unit are nice and actually awesome but having good magic is great too. I dunno if only the vermin lord could have gear he might actually be decent. Are you able to throw some warpstone tokens around? I started using them like one game ago and was surprised just how potent they made my grey seer. I was casting most of my spells that game except the 13th spell and my opponent only got like 2 spells off at the end (probably turn 5 or 6). He won because he had certain annoying things like warriors of chaos with mark of khorne. Thus meaning most of his army was frenzied though i did what i could do to bait them or run around them and shoot them in backs ;P.

Yeah now that i think about it List Two is probably better because it gives you some more killing power versus monsters, chariots, etc (with your vermin lord and stuff). You will need this if you have to face it. Meh then again 2 hellpit abominations and a warp lightning cannon are nothing to sniff at.

List 2 by a country mile.

Ok list two is much, much better now. I do like it a lot.

You are lacking mighty rat darts though!

Here are my two Warptokens:

- Ikit Claw costs too much.

- Queek is decent, but he dies pretty quick; without a challenge, he's expensive and frail. In a challenge, his chances of winning aren't overwhelming.
Queek's bodyguard are pretty awesome, and they can handle a lot of stuff that other Skaven can't. WS5 S5 is incredible. But they're not very efficient for what you get.

- Why have an Engineer with the Rocket, and then another with the Condenser? Save 15pts and combine the two.

- 20 Clanrats won't do much of anything except cause Panic tests. Taking them for the Weapon Team is expensive and ineffective; the Teams are not reliable by any means. They're a good thing to have a few of, but they're usually not worth spamming.
Units of 30 with shields, musicians, and standards can actually hope to do something in the game.
And while Warpfire Throwers can be awesome, they're not the only one to take ever.

- You've got two A-bombs and a big block of Stormvermin with the Stormbanner in both lists, and the Bell in one.
Then you've got 3 Warpfire Throwers and a Warp Lightning Cannon.
It seems like you're kind of at odds with yourself. The Stormbanner could hurt your shooting, and with that many 'Throwers and A-bombs, a Misfire could ruin your day.

- a real minor thing: I'd suggest getting a halberd on your BSB, and swapping out the Enchanted Shield for the Charmed Shield. The number of times S5 has saved my Chieftain is a lot greater than 3+ armour.

So, this is the current version of the list, any suggestions from here?

Lords 505
Grey Seer with Screaming Bell, Skalm, Power Scroll 505

Heroes 322
Chieftan with BSB, Charmed Shield, Talisman of Endurance, Halberd 107
Warlock Engineer with Wizard Level 1, Doom Rocket, Warp Energy Condenser 115
Warlock Engineer with Wizard Level 1, Dispel Scroll 90

Core 1051
Stormvermin x42 with Shields, Full Command 361
Clanrats x30 with Shields, Full Command, Warpflame Thrower 225
Clanrats x30 with Shields, Full Command, Warpflame Thrower 225
Skavenslaves x30 60
Skavenslaves x30 60
Skavenslaves x30 60
Skavenslaves x30 60

Rares 620
Hell Pit Abomination 235
Hell Pit Abomination 235
Doomwheel 150

You have 2 magical armours on your BSB, which is illegal
Also you still don't have any rat darts, a shame considering it's one of the best and cheapest redirectors in the game, especially against Frenzied units due to the Packmaster often surviving (different profile and shenanigans) to flee and be pursued by raging berzerkers

The Talisman of Endurance is, well, a Talisman. Not armour. Still, I'd like to see it bumped up to Preservation.

Shields on non-Queel Stormvermin are usually a waste, in my opinion. I'd rather spend the 42pts on 6 more bodies, since those are useful against magic and close combat as well as ranged.

It looks like you dropped a Warpfire Thrower and a Cannon, which makes the list more compatible with the Storm Banner (though Warp Lightning Cannons are far superior to Warpfire Throwers; much more so than the 20pt difference suggests).
But then you dropped the Stormbanner, too. I'd try to get it back. And, if those Stormvermin are pushing the Bell, a few more bodies is always a good idea, if you can manage.

Units of 30 Slaves are not very useful. If you want them to be cheap re-directors, take 20. If you want a tarpit, take around 50.
And always always ALWAYS take a musician. 2pts for a fast reform is a staggeringly good deal, especially on those big units.

Rat Darts are nice, as are small teams of Gutter Runners with Poison and slings.

Place you could save/re-direct some points:

- drop the Condenser and the Wizard level from your one Warlock, and upgrade the other to lvl2.

- drop the shields from your Stormvermin, then get the Stormbanner.

- drop one unit of Clanrats, increase the other to 40-50 strong. Then you could buy a Weapon Team and/or more bodies for the Stormvermin. Or use the Clanrats to push the Bell (my personal choice; spread out your targets).

- Combine Slaves into 2 50-rat blocks with Musicians. Use the left over points (and a few from somewhere else) to get two units of 5 Giant Rats with 1 Packmaster (the "Rat Dart").

The list won't be subtle, but I think it'll be decent.

Alright, this is how things look after the most recent adjustments. I still like the look of the Warlock Engineers, so I will stick with two for now, otherwise how does this look?

Lords 505
Grey Seer with Screaming Bell, Skalm, Power Scroll 505

Heroes 322
Chieftan with BSB, Charmed Shield, Talisman of Endurance, Halberd 107
Warlock Engineer with Wizard Level 1, Doom Rocket, Warp Energy Condenser 115
Warlock Engineer with Wizard Level 1, Dispel Scroll 90

Core 1040
Stormvermin x47 with Full Command, Stormbanner, Warpflame Thrower 474
Clanrats x47 with Shields, Full Command, Warpflame Thrower 293
Skavenslaves x50 with musician 102
Skavenslaves x50 with musician 102
Giant Rats x5 with Packmaster 23
Giant Rats x5 with Packmaster 23
Giant Rats x5 with Packmaster 23

Rares 620
Hell Pit Abomination 235
Hell Pit Abomination 235
Doomwheel 150

Looks solid to me. You don't have much in the ways of dirty tricks, but you've got enough raw might of one kind or another to hopefully make up for that.

The Engineers are fine. You save 30pts having one lvl2, and get an extra +1 to cast/dispel, but you also get one less Channel attempt. It's pretty close to a wash.

One thing I've had reasonable success with:
Swap the Charmed Shield for the Dragon Helm. That way, if your Rat Darts/Slaves encounter any Flaming Attacks, your Stormvermin can intercept them to keep your A-bombs safe, and your BSB is very well-protected indeed.
It's not much, but it's a little synergy, and it's fun when it works.