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So, I play GK, one of the GK Psy-Powers their Librarian can take is Quicksilver which raises the targeted unit to Initiative 10. My question is that if I use this on a unit that is armed with Nemesis Daemon Hammers does it raise that unit to Initiative 10 (instead of going at Initiative 1?)

Nope, unwieldy weapons swing at initiative1 regardless of the model's stat line. Unless there is a specific GK FAQ for this.

Unwieldy is a replacement value that occurs after Quicksilver goes into effect, meaning that while the model is at initiative 10, he still swings at initiative 1.

SJ

As above
You will be at I10 but you'll swing at I1

Unwieldy make you attack at a set initiative. Quicksilver modifies your base initiative. So there is no effect, although you will be I10 for sweeping advances and initiative tests.

Ok...I really don't like that because I feel like it makes Quicksilver pointless...I can already get most of my army up to I6 Nemesis Halberds which makes them competitors with most Eldar melee stuff.

Well, the power is good for making your swords and halberds strike at I10. Which is nice if you are facing something with I6 or higher.

rathkoron wrote:
Ok...I really don't like that because I feel like it makes Quicksilver pointless...I can already get most of my army up to I6 Nemesis Halberds which makes them competitors with most Eldar melee stuff.

Or you get charged by banshees, or fiends, which drop your I by 5.

An interesting rules twist is that a GK unit with Halberds and active Quicksilver that are charged by Banshees strike at initiative 7 (4 becomes 10 during their movement phase, 10 is reduce to 5 when the Banshees charge, Halberd equipped models strike at initiative 7).

So it behooves the Eldar player to pay attention.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
An interesting rules twist is that a GK unit with Halberds and active Quicksilver that are charged by Banshees strike at initiative 7 (4 becomes 10 during their movement phase, 10 is reduce to 5 when the Banshees charge, Halberd equipped models strike at initiative 7).

So it behooves the Eldar player to pay attention.

SJ

I thought it would be 10. Set modifiers are applied last after all.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
An interesting rules twist is that a GK unit with Halberds and active Quicksilver that are charged by Banshees strike at initiative 7 (4 becomes 10 during their movement phase, 10 is reduce to 5 when the Banshees charge, Halberd equipped models strike at initiative 7).

So it behooves the Eldar player to pay attention.

SJ

In theory it would still be 10, as the -5 is applied before the set modifier of 10. 4+2-5, set to 10

The 10 is applied during your movement phase, while the -5 is applied during their charge. The +2 is applied during the initiative steps. At initiative, the GK unit would be I10-5+2=7. However, if Quicksilver was applied at the start of the Eldar charge, the GK initiative would be 4-5, reduce to 1, +2 to a net of 3, replaced with a 10 (Hammers still swing at I1). Yet Quicksilver is apply on your turn and lasts until your next turn, allow the replacement value of 10 to be in effect before the Eldar charge, not after.

SJ

Reread modifiers on page 3, note the order they are applied.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
The 10 is applied during your movement phase, while the -5 is applied during their charge. The +2 is applied during the initiative steps. At initiative, the GK unit would be I10-5+2=7. However, if Quicksilver was applied at the start of the Eldar charge, the GK initiative would be 4-5, reduce to 1, +2 to a net of 3, replaced with a 10 (Hammers still swing at I1). Yet Quicksilver is apply on your turn and lasts until your next turn, allow the replacement value of 10 to be in effect before the Eldar charge, not after.

Doesn't matter when it's applied, you re-calculate using the Multiple Modifiers rule. If you don't then the modifers rule simply doesn't work, you'll end up with problems such as a strength bonus being applied before doubling.

Like Hammerhand?

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Like Hammerhand?

SJ

... Which is an explicit exception.

Correct.

SJ

Addendum: After further review, I'm changing my stance on this. The 10 initiative replacement value from Quicksilver will in fact override to -5 to initiative applied by charging Banshees, as well as ignoring the +2 to initiative gained from Halberds. It does in fact look like the only condition that could override the set value of 10 is a competing lower set value, to which a roll would be needed to determine which takes precedence that turn.

It makes powers such as quicksilver much more valuable now - previouisly halberds made it a poor power to pick.

Note that unwieldy alters the I you strike at, so would be applied "last" in all cases

Is Quicksilver a Set value as well? I thought it was.

Yes, it is.

But Quicksilver sets your initiative. Unwieldy doesn't set your initiative, it sets the initiative you strike at.

from the faq

Q: Does the Initiative 10 imposed by the Timeflow Stabiliser take
precedence over other set value modifiers such as Necron Whip
Coils? (p106)
A: No, randomly determine which effect takes precedence
each turn.

timeflow sets I at 10(for all purposes), the whip coil set I at 1(again, only for CC strikes, IIRC no necron dex right now)

Unwieldy sets your I at one (for the purpose of striking and pile ins), quick silver sets it at ten for all purposes, including the aforementioned two.

Competing set modifiers seems to be a roll off,

they are applied at the same time, that unwieldy is only a set modifier for some uses of I value, does not mean it overrides something that sets I value for all uses, including when a model strikes.

 easysauce wrote:
from the faq

Q: Does the Initiative 10 imposed by the Timeflow Stabiliser take
precedence over other set value modifiers such as Necron Whip
Coils? (p106)
A: No, randomly determine which effect takes precedence
each turn.

timeflow sets I at 10(for all purposes), the whip coil set I at 1(again, only for CC strikes, IIRC no necron dex right now)

Incorrect - for all purposes, meaning it's a direct conflict. Not comparable to QS vs UW.

A better example was from when 6th first came out.
Things like a Banshee mask with a power axe (I'm sure there was an old FAQ on it).
The Banshee (old codex) would be I10 but still striking at I1 due to unwieldy.

A better use of quicksilver would be to cast it on a dreadknight, so he can ID whatever big nasty he's fighting before it can strike back. The latest codex releases have had me reconsidering some of the GK codex powers.

rigeld2 wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
from the faq

Q: Does the Initiative 10 imposed by the Timeflow Stabiliser take
precedence over other set value modifiers such as Necron Whip
Coils? (p106)
A: No, randomly determine which effect takes precedence
each turn.

timeflow sets I at 10(for all purposes), the whip coil set I at 1(again, only for CC strikes, IIRC no necron dex right now)

Incorrect - for all purposes, meaning it's a direct conflict. Not comparable to QS vs UW.

yes it is, having a set modifier for all circumstances would logically trump a set modifier for only a couple circumstances (like unweildly), although that is not RAW, it could easily be RAI, although you are welcome to argue that RAI is the UW set modifier always takes prescience. RAW on conflicting set modifiers is only what I quoted above, and says to randomly determine the effect.

This is the only RAW we have for determining which of two set modifiers we use.

arguing that because UW is specifically for "when the model strikes" isnt really the catch 22 you think it is, as the set modifier from QS also applies at that time, in addition to the rest of the applications.

They are both set modifiers, and they both apply to the "when the model attacks" part, so yes they are in direct conflict.

They're modifiers for different things.
Quick Silver only modifies the model's Inititive. Unwieldly has nothing to do with this. Doesn't matter one bit what you modify the model's inititative to, it has no effect on unwieldly.

rigeld2 wrote:
Yes, it is.

But Quicksilver sets your initiative. Unwieldy doesn't set your initiative, it sets the initiative you strike at.

Yea, I know that you strike at I1 with unwieldy, For some reason I thought Quicksilver was +6 initiative, but it is just flat Initiative 10. thanks for the reply.

If you want another example precedent, look at Snap Shots.
That's a set value, but it means that your shooting attacks are resolved as BS1. The FAQ clarifies that this overrides other set values. In my eyes, the way that Unwieldy means your attacks are resolved as I1 puts it in the same category, so that only things specifically stated as overriding Unwieldy can do so (like Walkers).