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Frankie and Reecius go head to head in another 6th ed Eldar practice game. We're practicing for the Feast of Blades qualifier coming up and testing some new Eldar units out, particularly the new Wraithknight.

Nice bat rep. The size of the Wraithknight never ceases to surprise me and only makes me want two even more, the Iyanden supplement makes me want them even more....

Yeah, even rolling like crap as I did (WAY bellow average) he still cleaned up. Killed more stuff than anything else in my army and stopped 3 big threats.

Wow, that was a really impressive performance from the Wraithknight! I think you've convinced me to pick one up!

And to top it off, he wouldn't have even taken that first wound. Monstrous Creatures have Move Through Cover and auto-pass dangerous terrain.

Nice report! What are your thoughts on the Fire Prism? You mentioned that War Walkers and Reapers are the best heavy support choices, but I think the Fire Prism is just crazy. Possibly the best AT gun in the game, plus a 60" plasma cannon with no gets hot, plus a MEQ murdering large blast on a fast vehicle that's also cheaper than all those other options.

Also, what do you think of using Swooping Hawks over those Fire Dragons? The Fire Dragons can bring down flyers (although the most threatening flyer can still roast them before they get a chance), have 3+ armor, and can take down MEQ/TEQ.
On the other hand, you don't need any help killing MEQ/TEQ with all that rending. The 4+ armor is mitigated by speed (no scattering deep strike and 12" move) and cost (the Swooping Hawks are way cheaper).
+ You can get 2 units of 6 Hawks instead of the 10 Fire Dragons and save over 60 points.
+ You get 2 Large Blasts ignoring cover at ap4 (Fire Warriors, Dire Avengers, Necron Warriors, etc).
+ The 6 Haywire Grenades are still enough to bring down any vehicle (and you can target more vehicles with 2 units).
+ They're even scoring in the Scouring mission...very nice for a unit that can essentially hide in reserves and drop on an objective on turn 5.

Obviously, they're not strictly better...and they might not be better at all. I think they might be worth testing out.

I always enjoy the fun you guys seem to have.

Siphen wrote:
And to top it off, he wouldn't have even taken that first wound. Monstrous Creatures have Move Through Cover and auto-pass dangerous terrain.

Nice report! What are your thoughts on the Fire Prism? You mentioned that War Walkers and Reapers are the best heavy support choices, but I think the Fire Prism is just crazy. Possibly the best AT gun in the game, plus a 60" plasma cannon with no gets hot, plus a MEQ murdering large blast on a fast vehicle that's also cheaper than all those other options.

Also, what do you think of using Swooping Hawks over those Fire Dragons? The Fire Dragons can bring down flyers (although the most threatening flyer can still roast them before they get a chance), have 3+ armor, and can take down MEQ/TEQ.
On the other hand, you don't need any help killing MEQ/TEQ with all that rending. The 4+ armor is mitigated by speed (no scattering deep strike and 12" move) and cost (the Swooping Hawks are way cheaper).
+ You can get 2 units of 6 Hawks instead of the 10 Fire Dragons and save over 60 points.
+ You get 2 Large Blasts ignoring cover at ap4 (Fire Warriors, Dire Avengers, Necron Warriors, etc).
+ The 6 Haywire Grenades are still enough to bring down any vehicle (and you can target more vehicles with 2 units).
+ They're even scoring in the Scouring mission...very nice for a unit that can essentially hide in reserves and drop on an objective on turn 5.

Obviously, they're not strictly better...and they might not be better at all. I think they might be worth testing out.

Obviously Reece will have his own perspective, but since no one asked I'll offer my view.

The biggest issue for me bringing Hawks in a list is Spiders. In almost every scenario you mentioned, spiders do it better. They're faster, have better guns, and better armor. They can't auto hit on DS, true, but with that speed they don't really need to. 20 S7 shots in rear armor all day over haywire. The blast is really the only thing Hawks have over spiders, and it just isn't enough to justify taking them.

As far as prisms go, I've never been a fan. 1 shot from a tank always makes me nervous. War Walkers just put out the pain all day, and can fulfill any role you need to. Even been toying with a 6BL/2SL squad of WW as anti tank. 8 SL shots means you don't have to be baby sat w/guide, and have a respectable chance at hurting flyers. Not sure it's a good idea, but I'm still trying to get my head around the codex and how best to abuse SL twin linkage.

Another great report, I would love to see one with the warp spiders in it!

God them eldar did work and they rolled like crap. The funny thing is you didn't even run a squad of warpspiders.... just imagine if they were in the list too

Reece, given what you've seen so far with the Eldar. Do you think a Wraith based army using the Iyanden book will be viable? Something like:

Spiritseer on bike

6 jetbikers 2 cannons
2-3x 5 man Wraithguard in Waveserpents
2 Wraithknights

or maybe 1 Wraithknight and a Prism. Roughly were looking at a small 1750-1850 pt army that has some serious face smash potential and 3 rock hard scoring units plus 1(2) Wraithknights. I am still kicking around if I want to invest in this or not but it seems the Eldar book is much more viable than say DA which I have and don't enjoy so selling off that for Eldar wouldn't be a bad move imo.

Second thing, how has foot slogging the Eldar been? I really think the Waveserpent is the best transport in the game now, even better than the Nightscythe. Mechdar looks like it could be awesome again, it even won our local 20 man RT last weekend pretty handily.

 OverwatchCNC wrote:
Reece, given what you've seen so far with the Eldar. Do you think a Wraith based army using the Iyanden book will be viable? Something like:

Spiritseer on bike

6 jetbikers 2 cannons
2-3x 5 man Wraithguard in Waveserpents
2 Wraithknights

or maybe 1 Wraithknight and a Prism. Roughly were looking at a small 1750-1850 pt army that has some serious face smash potential and 3 rock hard scoring units plus 1(2) Wraithknights. I am still kicking around if I want to invest in this or not but it seems the Eldar book is much more viable than say DA which I have and don't enjoy so selling off that for Eldar wouldn't be a bad move imo.

Second thing, how has foot slogging the Eldar been? I really think the Waveserpent is the best transport in the game now, even better than the Nightscythe. Mechdar looks like it could be awesome again, it even won our local 20 man RT last weekend pretty handily.

Spirtseers can't take bikes, which is really too bad.

However, I'd like to second that I'm also intreasted in your thoughts on a Wraith-focused Army Reecius!

Obviously Reece will have his own perspective, but since no one asked I'll offer my view.

The biggest issue for me bringing Hawks in a list is Spiders. In almost every scenario you mentioned, spiders do it better. They're faster, have better guns, and better armor. They can't auto hit on DS, true, but with that speed they don't really need to. 20 S7 shots in rear armor all day over haywire. The blast is really the only thing Hawks have over spiders, and it just isn't enough to justify taking them.

As far as prisms go, I've never been a fan. 1 shot from a tank always makes me nervous. War Walkers just put out the pain all day, and can fulfill any role you need to. Even been toying with a 6BL/2SL squad of WW as anti tank. 8 SL shots means you don't have to be baby sat w/guide, and have a respectable chance at hurting flyers. Not sure it's a good idea, but I'm still trying to get my head around the codex and how best to abuse SL twin linkage.

The death spinner is S6, which is still plenty high to go through rear armor.

But I agree with the sentiment. Warp spiders are nutty now. They are incredibly fast, to the point that you might not even need to deep strike them to get them in a good position. The two games that I've played with them, they've been murderous and changed the tide in both. The ability to jump shoot jump also makes them excellent on dense terrain tables. You can nail a blob with a hail of S6, rending shots and then dance away behind a building to escape the return fire from any survivors.

If you do deep strike them, even a medium miss (provided you didn't mishap) can be mitigated by their ability to run before shooting to get back in position to nail rear armor.

As for the fire-prism, you can still guide it to ensure hits. With everyone becoming BS 4, units with a high volume of shots require less baby sitting so you can focus on guiding the deadly blasts.

I actually find the Wraithlords to be pretty good with two Brightlances and a sword. I just keep rushing them forward to fire and hopefully melee, at the very least they tend to push people back and away from my objectives. I am tempted to drop the two of them for a second Wraithknight though to make my Wraithwing more mobile.

Are you able to fire weapons as twin-linked if you have two of them? I wasn't aware of that and I think I heard you say that.

Very nicely done Reece its good to see Eldar being successful. I think Eldar will absolutely devastate marine armies as their basic troop can put out lots of shots that can be twin-linked and can rend! What I would be interested in is seeing how well they can perform against Tyranids as I think they will give you the biggest trouble with shadows and hordes. I will be keeping my eye out for more thanks again!

bogalubov wrote:


The death spinner is S6, which is still plenty high to go through rear armor.

As for the fire-prism, you can still guide it to ensure hits. With everyone becoming BS 4, units with a high volume of shots require less baby sitting so you can focus on guiding the deadly blasts.

If you liked them before... The death spinner is S7 against enemies I3 and lower, including units w/out a an I value. This includes tanks.

Yea, I didn't put up a huge argument on the FP because I'm just biased against it. You can make them work, but I think you get the most mileage guiding/pres. multiple shot units over a one shot unit. But mostly my experience with FP's has been terrible, and I don't like them because......yea.

Personally I think Tau and Necrons will give us the most trouble. Might be just my type of army but Tyranids always fell the easiest to them.

Nice Bat Rep Reece.
I am so happy my eldar got a new codex....
In the games I have played the naked wraithknight and a wraithknight with shield and suncannon... I have been super happy with both. I think war walkers with their invuln now are great. I think the Warpspiders are amazing and I really like the nightspinner now with the new monofilament rules and the torrent option. Good bat rep guys.
I still really like Eldrad, I know he is getting a lot of hate, but like you Reece I think level 4 with the ability to get charges back is nice and having a force weapon...

Actually, the night spinner is s8 against vehicles... It is base s7 and quite AMAZING!! It trumps the usefulness of the fireprism IMO as a single spinner did so much more for me than 2 Fire Prisms.

Also,eldrad's staff is now a force weapon, abandon should have died from that wound .

 mortetvie wrote:
Also,eldrad's staff is now a force weapon, abandon should have died from that wound .

Abaddon is an Eternal Warrior.

Hot diggity damn...wraithknight was a Timex watch that game...took a licking and kept on ticking. Yeah, my wraithknight is run base cost as well and have experienced similar results. The key is putting him in an army with multiple ball buster threats. Warwalkers, warpspiders..etc. There is so much crazy focused firepower that the wraithknight falls down in the depth chart of what to shoot at first...but with a 12" move it's kind of too late at times. LOL.

Eldar are so, so good this edition it is crazy! So far in half a dozen test games or so I haven't even come close to losing. That's not to say I am the super player or anything, it's just that the way I played (Footdar) got SO much better! It is crazy. Battle Focus is the Cat's Meow.

So far in 3-4 games the Wraithknight hasn't even come close to dying. Not even close. And every single game he walks through at least double his points in enemy units. We snuck in a quick game today with my Eldar and Deldar allies (tried that for the first time) against Chaos/Daemons with a nasty build. The game was over turn 2! The Deldar alliance walked through the forces of Chaos like they were standing still.

Hellions with the Baron and a Jetseer is hands down one of the best units I have ever put on the table. Wow, that unit went though something like 30 Khorne Dogs, Karanak, Herald of Khorne and a few fiends. The Wraithknight pulled a head shot on Fateweaver and ID'd him.

The Wave Serpent is absolutely insanely good. It is just incredibly versatile as a transport (super fast and resilient) and hits like a freight train! I think I will have to add one for my Friedragons (Mighty, Mighty mixeddar!?)

Yes, spiders are S7 against vehicles. Stupid good. Twin link them and blow pretty much anything baring AV14 away.

Dires are just fantastic. Every single game they kick ass like crazy. They put marines to shame, IMO.

War Walkers are damn near auto-include. It is just a question of how many. I keep trying bright lances but they under-perform compared to the scatter lasers almost every game. The Wraithknight gets it done with the cannons and then runs in and drop kicks things around like a big bully.

I tried the Night Spinner today. He missed both shots and we only played to turn 2 and my opponent was almost tabled at that point. I think it can be very good, though, just didn't get a chance to shine. I am considering a Ravager with all disintegraters, though. Twin link that bad boy and it is death on wheels!

I also want to try an Autrach on a bike with the Shard of Anaris, banshee mask and fushion gun. I think he adds a lot to a list. Possibly with Shinning Spears. I find that 2 Jetseers isn't always necessary, and when you go second against shooty armies, you may want to reserve and the +1/-1 on reserves can be really useful. Plus, he hits quite hard and is a boss in a challenge.

Man, my mind is seriously spinning with all of the possibilities. This book literally has no stinker units in it. Every single unit is good.

As for a Wraith army I don't see why not. The only downside I can really see is low model count. I haven't tried it yet though, so I can't say for certain. I'd love to hear from someone who has tried it, though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I misspoke, actually.

I did damn near lose a game against Daemons when they seized and got the Grimoire off on Khorne Dogs, however a last turn mistake on my opponent's part allowed me to get the W, but it was very close.

He Reecius... I have had a lot luck running Wraith, they do a pretty good job and w T6 troops hard to wound, add in a seer that gets the ability to add 1 to the armour save and 2+ up wraithguard with conceal is sweet. Have a farseer in there for fortune and an Archon with Soul trap, shadowfield and huskblade and it is fantastic... you could use the Baron for Hit and Run shenanigans but he does not hit as hard due to AP3.. I am attaching a battle report on here that I posted (sorry no pics or video) of an Eldar vs Choas/CSM.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/533673.page

 Reecius wrote:

Hellions with the Baron and a Jetseer is hands down one of the best units I have ever put on the table. Wow, that unit went though something like 30 Khorne Dogs, Karanak, Herald of Khorne and a few fiends. The Wraithknight pulled a head shot on Fateweaver and ID'd him.

Please elaborate, why is this unit so good?

Or better yet treat us with another battle report and show us!!

 Eiluj The Farseer wrote:
you could use the Baron for Hit and Run shenanigans but he does not hit as hard due to AP3..

He actually has AP- in CC.

I have to agree with how awesome a Baron Hellion's squad with a Farseer is. I was already running a large Hellion squad before the Eldar Codex was even released, now they are just so much better.

@Eiluj

Nice one, glad to hear they're working for you. I will read that bat rep. And as Red Corsair said, the Baron is not AP3, but he has very high strength attacks on the charge.

@CKO

The reason the unit is so good, and it sounds like tanuvaien is having success with them too, is actually a lot of little reasons.

1.) Scoring unit. Never too many of these in 6th.
2.) Very mobile. Jump infantry and fleet, plus the baron gives them rerolls on dangerous and rerolls on hit and run. They fly around the table.
3.) Good shooting. 18" range, assault 2 poison weapons on a jump infantry platform with prescience is the answer to a LOT of units. MCs and FMCs, not to mention basic infantry, wilt under that type of firepower. Iron Arm or high toughness is meaningless.
4.) Good assault. With a high number of high initiative and good strength attacks, again with rerolls from prescience, this unit will mince most other infantry units. With Grenades from the Baron (which the Farseer also lacks) they can charge anywhere. Plus, the drugs are all beneficial for this unit, any of the results helps a lot, although admittedly some more than others. This unit also takes most vehicles vehicles apart quite easily, particularly after getting a paint token. Combine this with a volley of their splinter pods and most units will get smashed. Doom goes a long way for this unit, too.
5.) Durable. With stealth and possibly fortune, the unit will be hard to kill. After a few pain tokens, they also have feel no pain and fearless. Makes them very reliable.
6.) Versatile. With a stun claw, they can pull independent characters out of a unit. They are good against a wide variety of targets, they are fast, scoring. The Farseer really buffs them and both Divination and Runes of Fate powers force multiplies this unit like crazy. Plus, the Baron gives you +1 to go first!

I could go on but you get the point. I think this unit is pretty much going to be an auto-include for me. On top of all that, I really love the models!

I agree with all your points Reecius. Most people underestimate the threat of Hellions, especially with regards to vehicles. Sure, Eldar are only base S3, but they get +1 for their weapons, after two tokens which are easy to get, they get another +1. Roll well on the drugs table (Sliscus helps but I can rarely fit him in) or use some nice psyker powers and you can eat most vehicles with their amount of attacks. The Baron's higher strength initial assault is pretty brutal too.

It doesn't hurt the are my favorite Dark Eldar model.

 Reecius wrote:
@Eiluj

Nice one, glad to hear they're working for you. I will read that bat rep. And as Red Corsair said, the Baron is not AP3, but he has very high strength attacks on the charge.

@CKO

The reason the unit is so good, and it sounds like tanuvaien is having success with them too, is actually a lot of little reasons.

1.) Scoring unit. Never too many of these in 6th.
2.) Very mobile. Jump infantry and fleet, plus the baron gives them rerolls on dangerous and rerolls on hit and run. They fly around the table.
3.) Good shooting. 18" range, assault 2 poison weapons on a jump infantry platform with prescience is the answer to a LOT of units. MCs and FMCs, not to mention basic infantry, wilt under that type of firepower. Iron Arm or high toughness is meaningless.
4.) Good assault. With a high number of high initiative and good strength attacks, again with rerolls from prescience, this unit will mince most other infantry units. With Grenades from the Baron (which the Farseer also lacks) they can charge anywhere. Plus, the drugs are all beneficial for this unit, any of the results helps a lot, although admittedly some more than others. This unit also takes most vehicles vehicles apart quite easily, particularly after getting a paint token. Combine this with a volley of their splinter pods and most units will get smashed. Doom goes a long way for this unit, too.
5.) Durable. With stealth and possibly fortune, the unit will be hard to kill. After a few pain tokens, they also have feel no pain and fearless. Makes them very reliable.
6.) Versatile. With a stun claw, they can pull independent characters out of a unit. They are good against a wide variety of targets, they are fast, scoring. The Farseer really buffs them and both Divination and Runes of Fate powers force multiplies this unit like crazy. Plus, the Baron gives you +1 to go first!

I could go on but you get the point. I think this unit is pretty much going to be an auto-include for me. On top of all that, I really love the models!

Thanks Reecius (the mightiest Farseer of them all) , my main concern is durability but I guess feel no pain and stealth helps out a lot. They are very strong offensively but I still have doubt, but all young eldar question the path but maybe your next battle report will show me the way I want to see this unit in action as well as warp spiders and I know you use both.

Wow, holy gak, the chaos got spanked!!
I used to be scared of chaos. My necrons are going to eat them up.

@tanuvein

Yeah, Frankie and I are both running that unit. It is just too versatile to pass up.

@CKO

We will bust them out in a bat rep, soon! Just don't have them painted up yet.

@popp G

Chaos have powerful units but in general are a pretty crummy Codex, IMO. I just feel frustrated with how much better it could have been.

Necrons are the business right now, I think you will do just fine against Chaos. Night Scythes eat Turkey's up.