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I plan on running a 10 man squad of Dire Avengers with Exarch in a wave serpent, just not sure on the best load out for the Exarch.

What are peoples thoughts on the best load out for the Dire Avengers Exarch?

My thoughts:
twin linked shuriken cat seems pointless
Power weapon and shuriken pistol...ok, but I prefer the next two options
Diresword and shuriken pistol... I like this option, the diresword seems like a cheaper version of the huskblade, ap2 with the possibility of removing a model from play. Nice, although it is only at str 3.
Power weapon and shimmer shield... not bad 5++ for the squad, power maul could be a good choice.

Exarch powers, I like disarming strike and battle fortune as a combo.

But I'm new to Eldar so don't have any experience to back this up.

I would always go with the shield if I were to take them.

Well, I wouldn't bother. I'd try to stay out of combat with Dire Avengers, if possible. So the only useful upgrade would be the shuricat.

+1 to Shamikebab

He doesn't add much damage to the squad now so isn't mandatory, but with a Simmershield he can add a fair heft of durability, also some serious tarpitting in CC with Shield of Grace.

DAs are best for mid-range firefighting and stalling, which they're resonably costed for, but they're unlikely to ever win used as an assault unit, so its best to gear them with that in mind.

It's not combat only though, it's a 5+ inv save at all times.

So the 5++ still applies to the whole sq in cc?

Yep, the shield gives a 5++ at all times now (unless he's dead obviously)

Oh, how did I miss that little gem! Exarch seems more useful now.

Whats the role of the dire avengers? How do you plan on using them?
* Are you going to use them to just torrent of fire small units?
* Are you going to use them to torrent/assault weak backfield units? (cultists, t-firecannons)

Thinking of how you want to use the tool will give you a better understanding of how to equip them.

I find that with counter-attack and the shield they can actually survive assaults from a lot of units.

They have to be close to fire anyways and even with Battle Focus they will get charged eventually.

It´s eighter shimmershield or no exarch at all. For dire avengers I think he doesn´t really play a important role, apart from the survivability he can add to your squad.

Shimmershield is the only defense your DAs have against the Helldrake. It's not perfect but it's better than a kick in the nuts.

For the 5++ you give up a gun and add a 1/3 chance to ignore wounds which good use of cover from shoot then run should already give you. There are not a ton of innore cover things out there so I usually pass.

Another perspective is you are paying 43 points to protect 13 point models. This buys 3+ dire avengers which is about what the shield would save even in a situation where cover can't be uses I would say it is not worth it.

I only every take ezarchs to man a gun or a dire sword/ battle fortune if I want a suicide charge squad for fun games... Not really competitive otherwise

Or you could run more than one squad. Shimmershield+ exarch is a 30 point hike to the cost of the squad. For 30 pointns i can get almost 2.5 more guys in another squad and increase the firepower of that squad. Consider how easy it is to get a cover save in 6th, then consider that half the wounds (at least) you take will be on your armor save.

1/2*10 man squad=5 *1/3 chance of passing inv= 1.8 effective increase in wounds. Id rather my 2.5 increase in wounds by adding to another squad.

Essentially the exarch is now useless unless you are looking for a fun list. Maybe grab him for the 3+, but the weapon upgrade is pretty useless.

 Erik_Morkai wrote:
Shimmershield is the only defense your DAs have against the Helldrake. It's not perfect but it's better than a kick in the nuts.

If the heldrake after intercept and a lasgun with fast shot reaper exarch and my dire avengers are the priority target.... I already have lost or my opponent is not good at target priority

Then again I never run more than 5 dire avengers per squad so they are small cheap midfield troops playing keep away

Unless your opponants come equipped for xeno's and bring a shed load of heavy flamers, the 5++ is a bit expensive.
I love it when I play TAC lists and people bring an army designed to murder mine...

YMMV.

I have played 5 games so far with the new codex and have not used the DA yet. I am going to give try in the next week or so. I think that I would run them in the smaller squad size and take an exarch with shimmer shield and power spear. I would run two squads like this working together, shimshield for the 5++ as area terrain for cover is never where I need it to be so they can operate in the open and the spear because I am banking on counterattack so I can be S4 and usually strike first. 5 man squads will not last long in assault so I rather like two 5 man squads instead of one at ten. My waveserpents are for my guardians and HQ's. I will play a few games with the DA like this and see how it goes.

I got a game in last night against DE, and one of my DA Squads got into it with a squad of wracks, and the Exarch with Diresword and Disarming Strike was worth it's points in a challenge against the Haemonculus leading the Wracks.

I'm not sure that the Diresword will always be worth it, but you can build a unit to take advantage if it's strengths. AP2 and kill things dead in a challenge are both pretty useful once they get into CC. The really great thing is that we're debating between the three options for the Exarch, rather than one being clearly better than the other choices. (Let's not talk about the twin-linked Avenger Shuriken Catapult) Each of the three useful options allows you to design the unit for a purpose.

Shimmershield or no Exarch IMO.

The Diresword is really cool, but sadly not worth it.

How do people feel about DA exarch upgrades when talking about a 5-6 man squad hanging out in the back of a Falcon? Is it worth the points on a smaller squad? The thought was to have an extra troop pick that's not a jet bike, in case I needed to walk up stairs or something. Also, hopping out and shooting stuff as needed. I was leaning towards the power weapon and shield, but it is a little pricy on small squads...

I'd stick to larger squads in Serpents.

Smaller squads tend to be more favourable for units like Firedragons, who have more specific targets, but obviously they're not troops. If you must take them, I'd keep them as cheap as possible to just provide shooting if they need to.

Squad buff upgrades like the shimmer shield, that have a set point price, become more expensive per model as the model count decreases. 30 points for 10 models is 3pts/model. 30 for 5 is 6/model. ^.^ So I recommend against those upgrades on smaller squads.

I'm fielding a 10 unit DA squad including an Exarch with Power Weapon and Shimmer Shield. The unit is going to be used mostly to support my Seer Council getting into combat. I'll be playing mostly 500pt short games against either Tau or Orks, both of which the 5++ save will be of great use.

This option may limit my firepower from the squad ever so slightly, but the 5++ save makes it all worth while.

 zephoid wrote:
1/2*10 man squad=5 *1/3 chance of passing inv= 1.8 effective increase in wounds. Id rather my 2.5 increase in wounds by adding to another squad.

Essentially the exarch is now useless unless you are looking for a fun list. Maybe grab him for the 3+, but the weapon upgrade is pretty useless.

When tracking defensive stats, Time To Live is more important than Damage Taken. As Damage Taken decreases linearly, Time To Live increases exponentially. This is because the Damage Taken reduction still applies after you otherwise would already have been dead. Throwing out the "half saves are armour" as an assumption to simplify at start, how many applied wounds until the squad is dead? 10 without the Shimmershield, and 15 with the Shimmershield. So it's an effective wound increase of 5 if your armour saves are taken away.

I'm not sold on the half armour saves assumption, for a few reasons. One, it tends to in bursts. You'll have a bunch of saveable at once, then some not saveable at once. Two, half actually seems a bit low for Armour Saves count. Mass fire tends to be AP5. Three, if you have a unit that gets no save at all versus a specific weapon, your enemy is more likely to target them and easily wipe them out. If you gain an invuln save, it changes the overall strategy.

If we still go with it anyway, and apply one save of each type at the same time, then without a shimmershield the unit's dead after 14 wounds (7 3+ / 7 -). With a shimmershield the unit's dead after 18 wounds (9 3+ / 9 5++). For a 13% increase in unit cost, the squad survived 29% longer. I don't think gameplay would actually be this favorable to the invuln safe, I think a split of 5/2 or 7/3 is more likely than 1/1, but it shows how saves build on themselves.

 slowclinic wrote:
I'm fielding a 10 unit DA squad including an Exarch with Power Weapon and Shimmer Shield. The unit is going to be used mostly to support my Seer Council getting into combat. I'll be playing mostly 500pt short games against either Tau or Orks, both of which the 5++ save will be of great use.

This option may limit my firepower from the squad ever so slightly, but the 5++ save makes it all worth while.

This is my thinking too. I'm using mine as close fire support - I don't intend them to get into combat, but I accept that at times they will. For this, a power weapon together with Counter Attack and the 5++ will do - a Diresword is specialising the unit towards combat, a route that I don't want to steer them down.
The unit will typically have a Spiritseer or Farseer with them too, so that's a second power weapon if things get rough too.