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I've got a Rhino CSM army so I want to make use out of it. I've been trying to get CSM sorted since Oct and this is a last attempt before I ditch them:

HQ

Abaddon the Despoiler 265

Troops

5 x Chosen w/ Rhino 2 x meltaguns - Champion w/ melta bombs 150
5 x Chosen w/ Rhino 2 x meltaguns - Champion w/ melta bombs 150
5 x Chosen w/ Rhino 2 x meltaguns - Champion w/ melta bombs 150
5 x Chosen w/ Rhino 2 x plasma guns - Champion w/ melta bombs 160
5 x Chosen w/ Rhino 2 x plasma guns - Champion w/ melta bombs 160
5 x Chosen w/ Rhino 2 x plasma guns - Champion w/ melta bombs 160

Fast Attack

Heldrake baleflamer 170
Heldrake baleflamer 170


Heavy Support

3 x Obliterators mark of nurgle 228
5 x Havocs 4 x autocannons 115
5 x Havocs 4 x autocannons 115

Total 1993

Plan is the Rhinos move up 12" and pop smoke or rush up the extra 6" moving flat out, either way they should be in range to unleash double specials next turn or get out and unleash some bolters as well. With them moving only 12" Abaddon could deploy in the middle with the Obliterators and give pref enemy: space marines to all units, though the Oblits would have limited LOS. Havocs would lay down fire support from a distance.

The above list is minimum cost to me, in fact I have all models and just need to get a Chaos Lord for Abaddon, a few plasma guns and meltas and convert some Havocs up.

The other option is to ditch all melta bombs (I only put these on because I had spare points) and switch the Oblits to another Havoc units and spend the remaining 150 points of five Chaos Spawn. I love beasts units and the Spawn will give me a little bit of assault, though the lack of armour save worries me.

Abaddon is waster with the obliterators, he needs to get into combat and it is all too easy to steer clear of the oblits. As a unit they need to deep strike to hopefully coincide with the rhino rush hitting home.

The chosen are rushing up to unleash fire power? Would it not be better to rush up and assault. If you want to rush up and shoot you could do it more cheaply with a double FOC and units of havocs.

Any rhino rush needs to be supported by quick assaulty units. MoN Spawn, naked or with a lord, and maulerfiends work well (are the best for accompanying rhinos) as they take shots away from the rhinos, and they get to assault (if all goes well) the turn the chosen bail out and shoot. Bikes are not so good as they give weaker guns something to shoot at rather than their shots just being wasted.

If you are rushing forward to shoot then you need to pop smoke. If you are adding the quick assaulty things then go flat out with them. If you go shooty or assauly you could do with a few destroyer blades and dirge casters on the rhinos (not all of them) just to make sure your assaults are good and to give the rhinos a use when your chaps bail out. 4 Destroyer bladed rhinos piling into an ork horde will quickly thin out the boys; and slow them down if they want to waste turns powerclawing them.

I have tried Abaddon via deep strike and doesn't get into combat until turn 3 earliest and then still at the mercy of reserve rolls. The bonus of Abaddon being on foot is can give pref enemy: space marines, though of course this is situational.

You cannot assault from a Rhino and I do not want my shooting units engaged in close combat. If I want assault I'll go dedicated assault, which is why I am thinking of some Chaos Spawn. Yeah, I think Chaos Spawn are the way forward and will support this nicely.

By making the chosen assaulty you would be trying to get this devastating sequence going:

First Turn: Rhinos and Maulerfiends Run up the board.

Second: Chosen bail out, rhinos move to block LoS to chosen, (if with destroyer blades some try to tank shock), maulerfiends move to assaulty positions.
Chosen shoot up units. Focus fire plasma on terminators etc.
Maulerfiends assault units to pin them in combat, rather than necessarily wipe then out.

Third: Rhinos tank shock.
Choice between shooting for the chosen or going in to wipe out the maulerfiends opponents.

The only thing I have against the spawn is that any bolter/lasgun you are facing can hurt them, whereas a maulerfiend will take heavy weapons fire away from the rhinos.

If your looking to use the rhinos and chosen as substitute razorbacks then you are paying way too much for them.

You could go for Huron as a lord to get a cheaper HQ, get another character to get the double FOC and then pay for three squads of cheaper havocs in rhinos, some standard marines in rhinos etc to make things much cheaper. Huron could then ride with a rhino and infiltrate up to three of the rhinos and their contents to get them into position more quickly or just to deploy them after you see where the emeny is deployed.

I won't be using Maulerfiends, they are fail. An immobilised shot is all you need. Assault walkers just don't cut it these days as grenades are easier to hit with and then hull points. You also have the issue running straight towards death. I understand what you mean though, but I think dual Chaos Spawn would be loads better. And yes anything can hurt them, but that doesn't worry me as I play Dark Eldar.

Like I said, I wouldn't assault with the Chosen as they are a shooting unit.

I wouldn't bother taking Huron either. He only has the infiltrate ability, which is random. I would just take two Sorcerers or a Chaos Lord to ride with the Chaos Spawn.

Why not get the abbadon model instead?

interesting setup.
I have been going around telling people to try chosen+1, 4 flamers, 1 lascannon, rhino, hml after a good felllow recommended it to me. I forgot who, but was it you?

I think you should keep the plasmagun rhinos but replace the melta squads with lascannon & 3-4 flamers if you want to be shooty. Otherwise, I would toss in 3 flamers with the existing 2 spec weapons to deter charge and handle small mobs.

Perhaps replace oblits with a small termicide unit or plan to use oblits in short range firefights. Can abaddon be deepstriked with oblits but seperate and move away?

I personally would opt for cheap preds with side laser cannons instead of havocs if I rhino rush since they would shoot at the pred. Also I can place rhinos to the side of each pred so they can only shoot at the front av13.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

zaak wrote:
Why not get the abbadon model instead?

Could you make a termi lord with a modified sword and a lightning claw with tl bolters attached?
I have the pewter abaddon and I dont like the way it looks.

zaak wrote:Why not get the abbadon model instead?

Because it's a bit naff and I prefer plastic models.

Filch wrote:interesting setup.
I have been going around telling people to try chosen+1, 4 flamers, 1 lascannon, rhino, hml after a good felllow recommended it to me. I forgot who, but was it you?

I think you should keep the plasmagun rhinos but replace the melta squads with lascannon & 3-4 flamers if you want to be shooty. Otherwise, I would toss in 3 flamers with the existing 2 spec weapons to deter charge and handle small mobs.

Perhaps replace oblits with a small termicide unit or plan to use oblits in short range firefights. Can abaddon be deepstriked with oblits but seperate and move away?

I personally would opt for cheap preds with side laser cannons instead of havocs if I rhino rush since they would shoot at the pred. Also I can place rhinos to the side of each pred so they can only shoot at the front av13.

Definitely wasn't me who suggested 4 flamers and a lascannon. That's a bad setup as you want to be moving ahead to get flamers to bbq infantry and the lascannon is the complete opposite. No point taking a lascannon with that unit at all. You want units which have matching weapons for the same purpose, flamers do anti infantry and lascannon is monstrous creatures and tanks. Flamers and lascannons are not a good paired setup.

I would walk Abaddon as gives Chosen pref enemy: space marines, plus will probably be in assault turn 3 anyway and you're not at the mercy of reserve rolls; longer Abaddon is in the reserve the less time gets to do anything.

You can't Rhino Rush with Predators. Predators remain static and in the corners so they can reach all over the table. If you use Rhinos to block the sides of the Predator then that means you're moving the Predator and only snap firing most shots.

You could consider a walking wall with rhinos full of marines. Mix vindicators and predators into the mix with a handfull of walkers and just wander forward at 6" a turn and open up with everything in the shooting phase. When your punishing a side with two S10 AP1 shots a turn they'll probably focus on that rather than the rhinos.

I have tried Preds before and I am not keen on them to be honest. I just don't seem to get along with the sponsons and found Rhinos can block my LOS.

Walker wise I am not a fan of the Maulerfiend, I think it runs to it's death. It does have good synergy with the Rhinos though. Forgefiends are way too expensive and Havocs are better. Helbrute I have tried before, cool model, but it's pretty meh and pretty expensive when you look at what it is bringing.

I take it you mean S10 AP2 from the Vindies?

The trick with 3-4 flamers + 1 LC is to harass dedicated close combat units. U can still use that 1 lc to pop vehicles and hurt mc 48" away while also detering charges if the unit is in front. Add in a hml on the rhino and you can possibly hurt the now disembarked troops with S5 ap5. U only have to snap fire the lc in the first few turns you move into position. After that, they can poke pin pricks.

If I wanted just 2 spec weapon shooting out of a rhino, I would have used plague marines. If I did not want plague marines then I would use 10 csm and then pick dual spec guns.


imho, I think chosen are a cheap substitute for burna boyz. Just having 3 flamers+2 spec guns will greatly increase the killing potential for 15pts especislly if you use melta (flame template is 8"). It would also make your opponent think twice before charging. They will just shoot your 5 chosen to death.

Not really, if the flamers are to harass dedicated assault units then that means the unit is either sitting there waiting for said assault unit to come close, which lets face it isn't going to happen. Or moving up which means snap firing the lascannon. Having a lascannon and flamer in the same unit isn't good weapon synergy; the roles are reversed. Paying points to snap fire isn't a good use of points at all.

That is what I am banking on. The fact that the chosen wont get assaulted. I move the chosen to stand in front or block assault units but shoot at other units. Otherwise I would just use havocs. However havocs can not target 2 different units. If chosen are given 1 heavy weapon then only 4 chosen marines stand idle instead of 9 csm.

Imho, I think you maybe better off using 10 Csm with dual spec weapons instead of chosen. although it maybe cheaper to use 5 chosen+ 2 spec weapons instead of 10 csm + spec weapons, 10 csm can survive better than 5 chosen.

Maybe just use 1 or 2 units of chosen.

Why would 9 CSM stand idle for? You just take Havocs in units of 5. Though you just said it yourself, models sitting around doing nothing and they are costing points.

The Chosen are cheaper but lack the survivibility of 10 CSM.

Oh, sorry if I was unclear bro, I ment 9 csm not havocs. U can only get 1 heavy weapon in a squad of 10 csm.

U already have havocs to carry heavy. Some people kit out havocs for short range fights, but you already are using the best havoc setup of 4 ac.

The chosen standing around with flamers are not wasted if it scares away would be assault units. I like to think of it as a 15-20pts insurance plan.

That's what I am saying, amigo, assault units wouldn't assault Chosen so it's not an issue. Chosen would shot out the way and the assault units would find another way around.