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So I'm formulating a power list utilizing new Eldar Dex around 1850.

Why Mechanized with Eldrad? So we can exploit his Warlord Trait synergy with Waveserpents and their new Serpent Shield. An Alphastrike with Scatter-shield serpents, which are then protected from retaliation next turn with 3+ cover saves (Jink, Holofields, Stealth).

Here's an off the cuff formulation

Eldrad - 205
Spiritseer - 70

5 Wraithblades - Ghost Axe n Forceshield - 160
-Waveserpent, Scatter, Shuricannon, Holos - 145

5 Dire Avengers 65
-Waveserpent, Scatter, Shuricannon, Holos - 145

5 Dire Avengers 65
-Waveserpent, Scatter, Shuricannon, Holos - 145

5 Dire Avengers 65
-Waveserpent, Scatter, Shuricannon, Holos - 145

Crimson Hunter Exarch, 180

Nightspinner, Holos, CTM - 155
Nightspinner, Holos, CTM - 155

Which is 1700.

With 150 points to play with, I'm thinking of bulking out the troops for Shuriken cleanup. Question is whether to go Guardians instead of DA's. Can go 9/9/8 or 10/10/6 with DAs and exploit that lovely 18" range, or 10/10/10 Guardians and get some more Heavy Weapons into the mix....

A nice idea, i did a similar thing in a local tournament, but the list was a little less centric on this tactic.

Beware that Eldrad cannot cast from within the transport on units that are not the transport, or the embarked unit. This means that you'll be wasting most of his casting ability for turns 1-2 unless you start him outside the transport. This means you're paying a premium for a 12' stealth bubble for one turn. If you're definitely taking Eldrad, you should be taking him for the redeployment, mastery 4, and his other smaller abilities.

Personally, i'd like to see guardian squads inside, with some bright lances. Seems you might be lacking in this department, and now that BL's are so cheap, there's no reason not to.

Maybe a Fire Prism could fulfil that role?

With laser lock I think you can run an Eldar Mech list without Farseers.

Why Mechanized with Eldrad? So we can exploit his Warlord Trait synergy with Waveserpents and their new Serpent Shield.

This is pretty questionable. If you want a Farseer casting from turn 1 on, I'd take one on a jetbike leading a GJB squad.

Why on earth would you take a jetbike seer with a list like this, or care if you embark Eldrad turn one (to grab an extra 3" of movement minimum) - Nothing needs Prescience/Guide in this list, and the need to cast Maledictions at the bottom of turn 1 is questionable.

I know Guide/Prescience Farseers are the fad, but it's pretty obvious Eldrad is there to roll for Fortune, Maledictions, and Witchfires, as well as the redeploy, Force Weapon, and Stealth bubble.

Think about things!

I do like the idea of Bright Lances for AV14 contingency, thought I don't see much of them. Makes sense.

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Why on earth would you take a jetbike seer with a list like this, or care if you embark Eldrad turn one (to grab an extra 3" of movement minimum) - Nothing needs Prescience/Guide in this list, and the need to cast Maledictions at the bottom of turn 1 is questionable.

I know Guide/Prescience Farseers are the fad, but it's pretty obvious Eldrad is there to roll for Fortune, Maledictions, and Witchfires, as well as the redeploy, Force Weapon, and Stealth bubble.

Think about things!

I do like the idea of Bright Lances for AV14 contingency, thought I don't see much of them. Makes sense.

Well, I'd take a Farseer with telepathy. Psychic shriek is very nice as are some other of its spells.

Update - tested this army vs the a good tournament player fielding the netlist Necrons - pulled a win (first turn advantage) which really lifts this list's rating as a potential tournament power list in my eyes.

1850,

2 Dlords,
3 units of Wraiths
3 Anni barges
4 Nightscythes, 5 warriors in each

vs

Eldrad
Spiritseer
5 Wraithblades, Axes
9 Dire Avengers
9 Dire Avengers
10 Guardians, Brightlance
Crimson Hunter Exarch
4 Serpents,Scatters, Holos, Shuricannon
2 NightSpinners, Holos, CTM

Eldrad
Spiritseer
5 Wraithblades, Axes
9 Dire Avengers
9 Dire Avengers
10 Guardians, Brightlance
Crimson Hunter Exarch
4 Serpents,Scatters, Holos, Shuricannon
2 NightSpinners, Holos, CTM

The list seems solid, but it could be far better.

I'm assuming that Eldrad goes inside a Serpent. However, you cannot cast powers out of the hull (as it has no fire points), so he is largely wasted here. The Bright Lance on the Guardians seems similarly wasteful. If you are keeping Eldrad with the Guardians outside of a Serpent, that seems like an easy way to lose them. 11 paper thin models will not protect him long.

I don't see the point of the lone Crimson Hunter. There are so many things that just ensure a solo AV 10 flyer that costs 180 points won't be worth it. Going first against a list with a flyer (or multiple flyers), going against an Aegis with Quad Gun (unless you can kill it), going against anything with Interceptor (good luck killing multiple Riptides before your flyer comes in).

Finally, I don't understand the Spiritseer and Wraithblades. They aren't particularly potent counter attack, as they have no real means to assault from their transport.

If you want to keep the same basic theme and units, I'd try:

205 Eldrad
200 5 DA in Serpent with Scatter Laser, Holofield
200 5 DA in Serpent with Scatter Laser, Holofield
200 5 DA in Serpent with Scatter Laser, Holofield
200 5 DA in Serpent with Scatter Laser, Holofield
200 5 DA in Serpent with Scatter Laser, Holofield
220 20 Guardians, 2x Bright Lance

130 Night Spinner with Holofield
130 Night Spinner with Holofield
130 Night Spinner with Holofield


1815

You also have some points to play with in this build. I will note that I believe Tau allies would help immensely with durable anti-air.

Will someone explain how you take advantage of psychic powers in mechdar list?

I don't see how you can use psychic powers while inside of the vehicle.

Eldrad is overrated in a mech army. The armies show that Eldrad was deployed with a Guardian unit. Is it worth doing this? Fortuning Guardians certainly not. I'd consider a basic Farseer in a mech army or even an Autarch.

 JGrand wrote:

Eldrad
Spiritseer
5 Wraithblades, Axes
9 Dire Avengers
9 Dire Avengers
10 Guardians, Brightlance
Crimson Hunter Exarch
4 Serpents,Scatters, Holos, Shuricannon
2 NightSpinners, Holos, CTM

The list seems solid, but it could be far better.

I'm assuming that Eldrad goes inside a Serpent. However, you cannot cast powers out of the hull (as it has no fire points), so he is largely wasted here. The Bright Lance on the Guardians seems similarly wasteful. If you are keeping Eldrad with the Guardians outside of a Serpent, that seems like an easy way to lose them. 11 paper thin models will not protect him long.

I don't see the point of the lone Crimson Hunter. There are so many things that just ensure a solo AV 10 flyer that costs 180 points won't be worth it. Going first against a list with a flyer (or multiple flyers), going against an Aegis with Quad Gun (unless you can kill it), going against anything with Interceptor (good luck killing multiple Riptides before your flyer comes in).

Finally, I don't understand the Spiritseer and Wraithblades. They aren't particularly potent counter attack, as they have no real means to assault from their transport.

If you want to keep the same basic theme and units, I'd try:

205 Eldrad
200 5 DA in Serpent with Scatter Laser, Holofield
200 5 DA in Serpent with Scatter Laser, Holofield
200 5 DA in Serpent with Scatter Laser, Holofield
200 5 DA in Serpent with Scatter Laser, Holofield
200 5 DA in Serpent with Scatter Laser, Holofield
220 20 Guardians, 2x Bright Lance

130 Night Spinner with Holofield
130 Night Spinner with Holofield
130 Night Spinner with Holofield


1815

You also have some points to play with in this build. I will note that I believe Tau allies would help immensely with durable anti-air.

Thanks for the feedback.,

Eldrad and the Spiritseer both sit in/use the Wraithblades as a bunker, either starting outside or disembarking turn one. Works better than any amount of Guardians, between T6 and potential Fortune/2+Save/Precognition/Shrouded/Stealth options they're tenacious. Want to shoot them with high Strength over vehicles? Go ahead. Most players will ignore them, rightly. Can't go wrong for 160 points and 70 point spiritseer.

It should be noted this list uses Eldrad's redeploy well for a refused flank deployment with first turn, eg. pitched battle SS............NN.............SS turns into either SSSS............NN............. or .............NN..............SSSS, and that's enough to win games on it's own vs some armies. Adding more vehicles or starting units on foot dilutes this trick's reliability as you'll leave some behind. As noted above, you can start Eldrad embarked as you don't need Psychic powers cast outside of vehicles Turn 1, unless you're facing a parking lot you want to doubleguide barrages on as a set plan.

The Exarch is hit or miss - Quad guns never survive past turn one against this list, and for every Riptide list he's intercepted, there's at least 3 other list's some reliable str 8 Lances are gold. I think he needs testing for a few more games, otherwise I can pull in another Serpent or look to max the Wraithblades if I start having issues with them hanging around.

Problems I have with your list are no Shuriken Cannons, no CTM on the spinners, which isn't going to help with crowding - I had issues with 6 hulls tonight.

While I understand why you would want to run eldrad (for his warlord trait) in this list, I think that it might be a bit of a waste of points. Eldrad is quite expensive. If you don´t uitilize him to the fullest of his capabilities (which is not possible in mech) idk if he is truely worth it.

Eldrad and the Spiritseer both sit in/use the Wraithblades as a bunker, either starting outside or disembarking turn one. Works better than any amount of Guardians, between T6 and potential Fortune/2+Save/Precognition/Shrouded/Stealth options they're tenacious. Want to shoot them with high Strength over vehicles? Go ahead. Most players will ignore them, rightly. Can't go wrong for 160 points and 70 point spiritseer.

Well...you have to include Eldrad in that cost. So it is a 435 point unit. Worth 4 VP I might add.

It should be noted this list uses Eldrad's redeploy well for a refused flank deployment with first turn, eg. pitched battle SS............NN.............SS turns into either SSSS............NN............. or .............NN..............SSSS, and that's enough to win games on it's own vs some armies. Adding more vehicles or starting units on foot dilutes this trick's reliability as you'll leave some behind. As noted above, you can start Eldrad embarked as you don't need Psychic powers cast outside of vehicles Turn 1, unless you're facing a parking lot you want to doubleguide barrages on as a set plan.

I agree the redeploy is nice, but I can't help but feel Eldard is a bit wasted here.

The Exarch is hit or miss - Quad guns never survive past turn one against this list, and for every Riptide list he's intercepted, there's at least 3 other list's some reliable str 8 Lances are gold. I think he needs testing for a few more games, otherwise I can pull in another Serpent or look to max the Wraithblades if I start having issues with them hanging around.

Hit or miss is kinda rough for 180 points. If it works, more power to you. It just seems like going first versus any list that had a flyer or two would mean a quick death.

Problems I have with your list are no Shuriken Cannons, no CTM on the spinners, which isn't going to help with crowding - I had issues with 6 hulls tonight.

Crowding is a definite problem. You could grad the CTM on Spinners, but I'd advise that or Holofields, not both. It will be really interesting to hear how this idea fares with more testing! Best of luck.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Eldrad is overrated in a mech army. The armies show that Eldrad was deployed with a Guardian unit. Is it worth doing this? Fortuning Guardians certainly not. I'd consider a basic Farseer in a mech army or even an Autarch.

Just because you have vehicles with transport capacity, doesn't mean you need to stick your psyker in them all game

He's worth an extra 90 points over a standard seer when you factor in his redeploy, ability to forceweapon people in the face, 3+ invulnerable, and 4 rolls vs 3 for powers on top of that fantastic Warlord trait.

Holofields are 15 points each, or 90 points to take a 5+ to a 4+ for 6 vehicles every turn. If Eldrad can frontload an additional +1 to cover on top for all of those, how many points would you pay for a one use item to gain the same?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JGrand wrote:

Eldrad and the Spiritseer both sit in/use the Wraithblades as a bunker, either starting outside or disembarking turn one. Works better than any amount of Guardians, between T6 and potential Fortune/2+Save/Precognition/Shrouded/Stealth options they're tenacious. Want to shoot them with high Strength over vehicles? Go ahead. Most players will ignore them, rightly. Can't go wrong for 160 points and 70 point spiritseer.

Well...you have to include Eldrad in that cost. So it is a 435 point unit. Worth 4 VP I might add.

[

Good points. I am rethinking the Crimson Hunter quite a bit. Squeezing in a 5th Serpent is pretty darn significant given Lanchester's laws.

Reason I didn't count Eldrad is he tends to influence the board quite far from within his bubble unit - I was lucky in this game vs Crons having access to Doom, Precognition AND Fortune - Without Fortune and/or +2 Armour from the seer, The Wraithguard and psykers could have to be more circumspect. Most of the time though with some defensive benefit (even just 5+ area terrain) I'm happy for them to suck high strength firepower away from Serpents.

Pretty happy at the moment though taking down one of the best 6th ed builds tonight, on a high!

Is the shuriken cannon a must have on wave serpents?

In the new Codex, you can make do without the underslung Shuriken Cannons... but you will very rarely find any other options that provide more firepower for their almost-nonexistent point cost.

You can get by without them since you can still shoot your turret weapon and the Serpent Shield at full BS after moving 12," while the underslung cannon would only be shooting Snap Shots. However, consider that for the low, low cost of a shuriken cannon, you open up all of these options:

1) If you have a Scatter Laser, your shuriken cannon's Snap Shots are still twin-linked from Laser Lock. Twin-linked BS1 shots still hit 30.6% of the time, so after moving 12" you're still landing another successful S6 hit with the three-shot shuriken cannon.... including against flyers.

2) If you only move your Serpent 6", you can fire a volley from all three heavy weapons (turret, Shield, shuriken cannon). If you ever see yourself moving the Serpent 6" in a turn (say, when disembarking Troops?), then upgrading to three S6 shots over two S4 shots makes loads of sense with how little those S6 shots cost to get.

3) If you actually want to have the option of keeping your Serpent Shield up rather than using it like a gun (say it ain't so!), then that option is a lot more attractive when you still have two heavy weapons to shoot at full BS. You and the cannon can make it happen.

Well said chimaera, I think its mandatory the ability to unload that much str 6 into flyers is a decent aa platform. You can easily get rear shots on hell trurkeys.

One thing I'd like to point out- Eldrad + Spiritseer + WBlades in a Serpent can self buff heavily on the turn they disembark (likely fortune + Spiritseer buffs) for impressive survivability, then drop a witchfire or two (dual Psychic Shriek, or Shriek and Eldritch). With Fortune up, they will survive the turn. That leaves you with a fairly effective Mini-Star to grab your opponents attention away from your skimmers, and if he ignores them those Witchfires and Ghost Axes will punish him for it.

Wrap Eldrad in a 5x Harlie squad with a shadowseer. 120 points for the 24" sight is more than apt protection. And even if the power fails you have 4 mooks to throw away to wounds.

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Update - tested this army vs the a good tournament player fielding the netlist Necrons - pulled a win (first turn advantage) which really lifts this list's rating as a potential tournament power list in my eyes.

1850,

2 Dlords,
3 units of Wraiths
3 Anni barges
4 Nightscythes, 5 warriors in each

vs

Eldrad
Spiritseer
5 Wraithblades, Axes
9 Dire Avengers
9 Dire Avengers
10 Guardians, Brightlance
Crimson Hunter Exarch
4 Serpents,Scatters, Holos, Shuricannon
2 NightSpinners, Holos, CTM

A battle report would be nice here. I'm surprised since the Necron army is pretty good.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Update - tested this army vs the a good tournament player fielding the netlist Necrons - pulled a win (first turn advantage) which really lifts this list's rating as a potential tournament power list in my eyes.

1850,

2 Dlords,
3 units of Wraiths
3 Anni barges
4 Nightscythes, 5 warriors in each

vs

Eldrad
Spiritseer
5 Wraithblades, Axes
9 Dire Avengers
9 Dire Avengers
10 Guardians, Brightlance
Crimson Hunter Exarch
4 Serpents,Scatters, Holos, Shuricannon
2 NightSpinners, Holos, CTM

A battle report would be nice here. I'm surprised since the Necron army is pretty good.

First turn Eldar, deployed centrally, Necrons deployed centrally, Eldrad turned it into refused flank, leaving Anni Barges out of range 1-2 turns.
Shot up advancing Wraiths first two turns, including Dire Avengers (Bladestorm > Destroyer Lord soak, failed a couple LOS, failed reanimation). Str 8 on Spinners is Gold.
Hunter stayed off the board, failed twice.
Necron Flyers all came Necron Turn two. Eldrad 'feated' this turn for Stealth all vehicles. Lost one Serpent to pen explode. Rest bounced shots.
Waveserpents shot up flyers (Doom in play). Lost some DA's to Anni Barges. Wraiths assaulted and killed a Spinner. Wraithblades counted and wiped the remaining Wraiths.
Brightlance killed a Barge maybe? Crimson Hunter killed or Flyer, I forget, Wave Serpents bounced most of the Tesla next turn + Wraithblades bullied the Annibarges away/controlled centre of the board, untouchable. Necron player way behind on killpoints, First blood, warlord, Linebreaker, maybe one or two flyers operational, conceeded turn 5 ish.

I like the idea a lot, but I'm uncomfortable setting up that 4 VP squad unless the psychic power rolls make it too good not to do. I'm hoping to try something a little similar soon, except swapping out the Night Spinners for artillery (much cheaper, almost as good except no S8 vs Necrons) to give Eldrad the option of sitting back in a pretty tough unit. I also really want to try out the Wraithknight model, and I feel like it goes pretty well with a Serpent-heavy list both rules-wise and feel-wise (fast and tough, plus some much-needed assault and anti-tank).

I'm thinking Eldrad and the Spiritseer, two 5-man DA squads, a 5-man Fire Dragon squad, and a 5-man scytheguard squad, plus 4 Serpents. Then a naked Wraithknight and two Vaul's Weavers. That leaves about 120 points left out of 1850. Could go Iyanden and give the Spiritseer the healing thingy, but I'd rather not give up Conceal. Maybe just throw in two 3-man jetbike squads with cannons, bringing the list up to 5 Troops. Could also opt to stay truer to the Mech-only theme and lose the WK for a Prism and the bikes for another DA squad. I have a hard time justifying not bringing the Vaul's Weavers instead of the Night Spinners as long as the slots are available - you could replace your two Spinners with 3 artillery batteries and have points to spare, and they're still presenting really high toughness to the enemy, if you're concerned about defense rather than theme. Edit: Although I guess you're probably playing the Spinners really aggressively and using the Torrent fire mode since you're confident the enemy has other things to shoot at, which does sound tempting.

But with my WK list, you'd roll for powers and maybe still be able to throw Eldrad and the Spirit Seer in with the Scytheguard to make a T6 2+/4++ rerollable immovable object. But failing great psychic rolls, the Seer can still go with the Scytheguard to give them a cover save. They don't even do a terrible job charging with Spirit Mark, although you'll probably want the Wraithknight close by. Eldrad can hang out with the artillery, enhancing the WK as long as it's in range and allowing your barrages to reroll scatter. You're not causing ID on low initiative T4, but you're still sniping characters left and right, and maybe even with ignore cover. You may even still be able to get good use out of his warlord trait, if you have to pop it before your second movement phase (and your WK may well be in charge range by then anyway). Edit2: And you do have the option of giving up a turn of firing from a <100 point unit to run them up another 6" plus fleet to keep Eldrad close, and he's bringing all those T7 wounds with him.

I do love Vaul's, and the WK would bring in the STR10 AP1/ID that helps against AV13/14 and Riptides. After some more playtesting that could be the way to go, as while the weight of fire from the serpents is proving good, having the ability to crack the tough stuff answers a few problems.

Would probably drop the Crimson Hunter and maybe go Min squads of DAs to get there.

Arty is seriously good. The Crimson Hunters have been gold so far, yep I do play them aggressively, combining CTM and Eldrad's Stealth for 2+ Cover when sending them in to Torrent.

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Update - tested this army vs the a good tournament player fielding the netlist Necrons - pulled a win (first turn advantage) which really lifts this list's rating as a potential tournament power list in my eyes.

1850,

2 Dlords,
3 units of Wraiths
3 Anni barges
4 Nightscythes, 5 warriors in each

vs

Eldrad
Spiritseer
5 Wraithblades, Axes
9 Dire Avengers
9 Dire Avengers
10 Guardians, Brightlance
Crimson Hunter Exarch
4 Serpents,Scatters, Holos, Shuricannon
2 NightSpinners, Holos, CTM

A battle report would be nice here. I'm surprised since the Necron army is pretty good.

First turn Eldar, deployed centrally, Necrons deployed centrally, Eldrad turned it into refused flank, leaving Anni Barges out of range 1-2 turns.
Shot up advancing Wraiths first two turns, including Dire Avengers (Bladestorm > Destroyer Lord soak, failed a couple LOS, failed reanimation). Str 8 on Spinners is Gold.
Hunter stayed off the board, failed twice.
Necron Flyers all came Necron Turn two. Eldrad 'feated' this turn for Stealth all vehicles. Lost one Serpent to pen explode. Rest bounced shots.
Waveserpents shot up flyers (Doom in play). Lost some DA's to Anni Barges. Wraiths assaulted and killed a Spinner. Wraithblades counted and wiped the remaining Wraiths.
Brightlance killed a Barge maybe? Crimson Hunter killed or Flyer, I forget, Wave Serpents bounced most of the Tesla next turn + Wraithblades bullied the Annibarges away/controlled centre of the board, untouchable. Necron player way behind on killpoints, First blood, warlord, Linebreaker, maybe one or two flyers operational, conceeded turn 5 ish.

Many thanks for pointing out. Interesting.
Where did you deploy your HQs?

Both with the Wraithblades in a serpent, so that Eldrad could move them all with his redeploy (only 6 vehicles on the table)
They got out first turn.
I had Doom, Fortune, Precog, Guide, Prescience as powers, as well as +1 Str on the Spiritseer (Str8 for WraithBlades)

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Both with the Wraithblades in a serpent, so that Eldrad could move them all with his redeploy (only 6 vehicles on the table)
They got out first turn.
I had Doom, Fortune, Precog, Guide, Prescience as powers, as well as +1 Str on the Spiritseer (Str8 for WraithBlades)

How did you get Five powers on Eldrad? Since only Farseers can roll on fate and divination.

You got some excellent rolls though, with Doom and Fortune.

How did the Nightspinners perform for you?

sorry, no prescience, I meant to type Guide, didn't delete it. Yep good power rolls.

Nightspinners did good work on the Wraiths, Barrage first turn killing a few (avoiding DL thanks to Barrage rules) then Torrent on the Wraiths turn two with CTM racked up more. Had the Magic Str 8.

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
sorry, no prescience, I meant to type Guide, didn't delete it. Yep good power rolls.

Nightspinners did good work on the Wraiths, Barrage first turn killing a few (avoiding DL thanks to Barrage rules) then Torrent on the Wraiths turn two with CTM racked up more. Had the Magic Str 8.

Nightspinners are a bit too situational. They may work vs Necrons but against Marines they might be less effective.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
sorry, no prescience, I meant to type Guide, didn't delete it. Yep good power rolls.

Nightspinners did good work on the Wraiths, Barrage first turn killing a few (avoiding DL thanks to Barrage rules) then Torrent on the Wraiths turn two with CTM racked up more. Had the Magic Str 8.

Nightspinners are a bit too situational. They may work vs Necrons but against Marines they might be less effective.

I think so too. I personally liked nightspinners better in the old codex. That slowing rule was very interesting imo.

The prism did always and does now do more damage.

I don't know... I complained for years that we didn't have a template weapon on all those beautiful fast skimmers, now we have a torrent monofilament one. For me, the jury is still out. I've used it twice, and loved it both times. Barrage is so awesome in this edition, it's hard to not take a str7/8 one.