OECD study concludes that immigration is economically beneficient

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**AlmightyWalrus**

http://www.oecd.org/migration/migrationpickingupbutrisingunemploymenthurtingimmigrants.htm

OECD wrote:13/06/2013 - Migration has started to pick up again, driven largely by people moving within the European Union, after three years of continuous decline during the crisis. But the employment prospects for immigrants have worsened, with around one in two unemployed immigrants in Europe still looking for work after more than 12 months, according to a new OECD report.

The 2013 International Migration Outlook says that migration into OECD countries rose by 2% in 2011 from the previous year, to reach almost 4 million. Recent national data suggest a similar increase in 2012.

“Governments must do everything they can to improve immigrants’ job prospects,” said OECD Secretary General Angel Gurría, presenting the report in Brussels, with EU Commissioner for Employment, Social Affairs & Inclusion László Andor and EU Commissioner for Home Affairs Cecilia Malmström. “Tackling high and long-term unemployment now is essential. Continuing to help immigrants integrate will also ensure they can play their part in driving growth as the global economy recovers.”

Migration within the European Union rose by 15%, following a decline of almost 40% during the crisis. The trend of people leaving countries hardest hit by the crisis is accelerating, up by 45% from 2009 to 2011.

The number of Greeks and Spaniards moving to other EU countries has doubled since 2007, reaching 39,000 and 72,000 respectively. Germany saw a 73% increase of Greek immigrants between 2011 and 2012, close to 50% for Spanish and Portuguese nationals and 35% for Italians.
Migration to the United States remained steady in 2011, rising by 2%. Italy saw a fall of the number of immigrants of 11% and immigration levels there are now 44% lower than in 2007.
But the job market situation has worsened sharply for immigrants, with unemployment rising by almost five percentage points between 2008 and 2012, compared with a 3 point jump among the native-born. Immigrant youth and the low-skilled have been worst hit. The impact was strongest on migrants from Latin America and North Africa.
Long-term unemployment has risen sharply among migrants. The share of unemployed immigrants in OECD countries who have been out of work for more than a year increased from 31% in 2008 to 44% in 2012. Cash-strapped governments should avoid cutting systematically on integration programmes, but concentrate on measures that provide the largest pay off, such as language and professional training, and focus on the most vulnerable groups, such as migrant youth, says the OECD.

The report analyses the fiscal impact of immigration. It says that raising the employment levels of migrants to that of the native-born would generate significant economic returns, especially in countries such as Belgium, France and Sweden with large, established immigrant populations. It also finds that the current impact of the cumulative waves of migration of the past fifty years is close to zero on average in the OECD. Work is the main determinant of migrants’ fiscal contribution, it says.
Fighting discrimination is essential to achieve this, says the OECD. The report assesses the level of discrimination across countries and finds its extent much higher than previously thought. Generally, a person with an immigrant-sounding name, for example, has to send at least twice as many applications to get a job interview than one with a non-immigrant name.

The responses to this I've seen so far from people whose world-view does not line up with the findings have been rather depressing. What's up with everyone today thinking that their opinion is as valid or even more valid than that of people's whose job it is to explore a topic? I shouldn't be surprised, but the sheer level of going "nanananananana can't hear you!" that can go on in politics is just depressing. Anyway, discuss away.

**dæl**

Pretty much every bit of research into immigration has concluded that it is beneficial. Unfortunately, things like peer reviewed evidence play second fiddle to pandering to the misinformed far too much in modern politics.

**Steve steveson**

Now, I'm not anti EU or anti immigration but these reports often miss out many of the problems. The largest one in the UK is housing. Housing is in very short supply in the UK and any increase in population puts even more pressure on the already over stressed market. It is things like this that do not show up in most reports that look at economic effects.

However, lack of house building is not the fault of the immigrants, but of the same group that are so often anti immigration.

**Krellnus**

dæl wrote:
Pretty much every bit of research into immigration has concluded that it is beneficial. Unfortunately, things like peer reviewed evidence play second fiddle to pandering to the misinformed far too much in modern politics.

Care to link to some of these reports, genuine interest in seeing those (when I get the time anyway

).

**Kilkrazy**

Steve steveson wrote:
Now, I'm not anti EU or anti immigration but these reports often miss out many of the problems. The largest one in the UK is housing. Housing is in very short supply in the UK and any increase in population puts even more pressure on the already over stressed market. It is things like this that do not show up in most reports that look at economic effects.

However, lack of house building is not the fault of the immigrants, but of the same group that are so often anti immigration.

A good house building programme, like everyone in Europe had after WW2, for obvious reasons, would be a great way to stimulate the economy.

**Jasper**

Agree immigration helps and economy. The problem is media focuses on the horror stories of uncontrollable numbers from the EU, living in caves and over look the nice Indian doctor who checked my kids eyes last week, or the fruit pickers which are keeping the growers in the vale of york going.

Labours admission that they encouraged it from the EU to race manual labour fees to the bottom also has stoked the fires. Whether they did this or its some clever spin by the current chap in chagre I don't know. Our inability to kick criminals out of the country after their jail sentences also stokes the fires against immigration.

Most of the builders I work with in London were probably not born in the UK so I place the lack of London housing firmly on them for not building it quick enough.

**SagesStone**

Hopefully it didn't take them too long to research something so obvious.

**dæl**

Krellnus wrote:
dæl wrote:
Pretty much every bit of research into immigration has concluded that it is beneficial. Unfortunately, things like peer reviewed evidence play second fiddle to pandering to the misinformed far too much in modern politics.

Care to link to some of these reports, genuine interest in seeing those (when I get the time anyway ).

Yeah, no worries at all.
Analysis of the impacts of migration
The Labour Market Effects of Immigration
Analysis of impact of net migration on UK public sector debt

**Krellnus**

dæl wrote:
Krellnus wrote:
dæl wrote:
Pretty much every bit of research into immigration has concluded that it is beneficial. Unfortunately, things like peer reviewed evidence play second fiddle to pandering to the misinformed far too much in modern politics.

Care to link to some of these reports, genuine interest in seeing those (when I get the time anyway ).

Yeah, no worries at all.
Analysis of the impacts of migration
The Labour Market Effects of Immigration
Analysis of impact of net migration on UK public sector debt

Thanks, I'll be sure to look at them after work tonight.

**Frazzled**

dæl wrote:
Pretty much every bit of research into immigration has concluded that it is beneficial. Unfortunately, things like peer reviewed evidence play second fiddle to pandering to the misinformed far too much in modern politics.

Its not beneficial to those in the home coutry that lose their jobs.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Frazzled wrote:
dæl wrote:
Pretty much every bit of research into immigration has concluded that it is beneficial. Unfortunately, things like peer reviewed evidence play second fiddle to pandering to the misinformed far too much in modern politics.

Its not beneficial to those in the home coutry that lose their jobs.

In what world does an employer kick a "native" out to replace him or her with an immigrant? It might just be over here, but good luck finding a job if you're an immigrant.

**Easy E**

In other news, the world is also round.

**dæl**

Frazzled wrote:
dæl wrote:
Pretty much every bit of research into immigration has concluded that it is beneficial. Unfortunately, things like peer reviewed evidence play second fiddle to pandering to the misinformed far too much in modern politics.

Its not beneficial to those in the home coutry that lose their jobs.

Of those articles I posted the second one, regarding the Labour market, covers this issue. There are a number of studies quoted in the article all of which found no general adverse effect on employment, although there can be a minor effect within some sectors.

**Frazzled**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
dæl wrote:
Pretty much every bit of research into immigration has concluded that it is beneficial. Unfortunately, things like peer reviewed evidence play second fiddle to pandering to the misinformed far too much in modern politics.

Its not beneficial to those in the home coutry that lose their jobs.

In what world does an employer kick a "native" out to replace him or her with an immigrant? It might just be over here, but good luck finding a job if you're an immigrant.

Really? Do you have a fething clue?
Entire industries have been taken over here by illegal immigrants. Good luck trying to get a job in construction here. Those used to be good jobs.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

dæl wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
dæl wrote:
Pretty much every bit of research into immigration has concluded that it is beneficial. Unfortunately, things like peer reviewed evidence play second fiddle to pandering to the misinformed far too much in modern politics.

Its not beneficial to those in the home coutry that lose their jobs.

Of those articles I posted the second one, regarding the Labour market, covers this issue. There are a number of studies quoted in the article all of which found no general adverse effect on employment, although there can be a minor effect within some sectors.

Studies by economists who are safe and should be put against the wall because they havenothing to fear.

**dæl**

Frazzled wrote:
dæl wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
dæl wrote:
Pretty much every bit of research into immigration has concluded that it is beneficial. Unfortunately, things like peer reviewed evidence play second fiddle to pandering to the misinformed far too much in modern politics.

Its not beneficial to those in the home coutry that lose their jobs.

Of those articles I posted the second one, regarding the Labour market, covers this issue. There are a number of studies quoted in the article all of which found no general adverse effect on employment, although there can be a minor effect within some sectors.

Studies by economists who are safe and should be put against the wall because they havenothing to fear.

I'm not sure having nothing to fear is an adequate reason for being put against the wall so you may let slip the weiner dogs of war on them.

**Dreadclaw69**

Frazzled wrote:
Really? Do you have a fething clue?
Entire industries have been taken over here by illegal immigrants. Good luck trying to get a job in construction here. Those used to be good jobs.

Time to contact the Gang of Eight with a proposal - lets send the illegal immigrants in the US to Europe

**Alfndrate**

Did I miss something? The article is talking about legal immigration correct? Like the Dreadclaw69 and MGS style?

**Dreadclaw69**

Migration within the EU is legal for the most part because of the Directives on the free movement of goods and workers

**Frazzled**

Alfndrate wrote:
Did I miss something? The article is talking about legal immigration correct? Like the Dreadclaw69 and MGS style?

Why do you think corporations and the government like the H1B visa program. Anyone notice average salaries in the tech industry aren't going up???

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Really? Do you have a fething clue?
Entire industries have been taken over here by illegal immigrants. Good luck trying to get a job in construction here. Those used to be good jobs.

Time to contact the Gang of Eight with a proposal - lets send the illegal immigrants in the US to Europe

It would require 15 times the DDay invasion (including all support vessels) to do it.
Monthly.

**MeanGreenStompa**

Frazzled wrote:
Really? Do you have a fething clue?
Entire industries have been taken over here by illegal immigrants. Good luck trying to get a job in construction here. Those used to be good jobs.

They were willing to work for less wages.

That is how the free market operates.

That's how the megacorps like it.

**Kilkrazy**

The economy as a whole can grow but the rewards have gone largely to the top 1%.

**Frazzled**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Really? Do you have a fething clue?
Entire industries have been taken over here by illegal immigrants. Good luck trying to get a job in construction here. Those used to be good jobs.

They were willing to work for less wages.

That is how the free market operates.

That's how the megacorps like it.

That is indeed how the megacoprs like it. However what id good for GM is not necessarily what is good for America.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kilkrazy wrote:
The economy as a whole can grow but the rewards have gone largely to the top 1%.

Yes.

**Kilkrazy**

This is why we must all work hard to become one of the top 1%.

**MeanGreenStompa**

Frazzled wrote:
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Really? Do you have a fething clue?
Entire industries have been taken over here by illegal immigrants. Good luck trying to get a job in construction here. Those used to be good jobs.

They were willing to work for less wages.

That is how the free market operates.

That's how the megacorps like it.

That is indeed how the megacoprs like it. However what id good for GM is not necessarily what is good for America.

This can be alleviated by a raised minimum wage/universal minimum wage.

What use are 'job creators' who pay illegals or simply ship out work overseas? I'd say none. Tax imports, raise wages, tax the 1% at a incremental rate.

**Frazzled**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Really? Do you have a fething clue?
Entire industries have been taken over here by illegal immigrants. Good luck trying to get a job in construction here. Those used to be good jobs.

They were willing to work for less wages.

That is how the free market operates.

That's how the megacorps like it.

That is indeed how the megacoprs like it. However what id good for GM is not necessarily what is good for America.

This can be alleviated by a raised minimum wage/universal minimum wage.

What use are 'job creators' who pay illegals or simply ship out work overseas? I'd say none. Tax imports, raise wages, tax the 1% at a incremental rate.

Oh my we have a startling level of agreement.
FYI look up 'good for GM is good for america.' Its an old quote.

**Kilkrazy**

The business of America is business.

**Frazzled**

Kilkrazy wrote:
The business of America is business.

Greed is all right, by the way. I want you to know that. I think greed is healthy. You can be greedy and still feel good about yourself.”

-Ivan Boesky

**MeanGreenStompa**

Frazzled wrote:

Greed is all right, by the way. I want you to know that. I think greed is healthy. You can be greedy and still feel good about yourself.”

-Ivan Boesky

You don't need a fortress base to live in, settle for a mansion, you don't need a Lamborghini for every day of the year, settle for one for every month of the year, you don't need more money between 6 members of a family than the entire lower 30% of the population of the same 1st world nation you live in, be content with a few billion dollars and the capacity to buy a private island on a whim. The scale between rich and poor can still exist, it just needs toning the hell down, so that the richest don't bestride the world like untouchable demigods and the poor don't suffer with malnutrition, in the same, most powerful, nation on the planet. There should always be incentives, but this, even in the last 30 years, has gotten NUTS! - meangreenstompa.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few - Spock.

**Alfndrate**

Anthony Anderson, as Burger Shack Employee wrote:Let's burn this mother fether down, Pookie!

I like how in one thread we have people saying how raising the minimum wage wouldn't help anything, and then we have people here saying it will help things

. I realize that the points are slightly different, just a humorous (to me) observation.

**Frazzled**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
[
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few - Spock.

Come on lucky 7. Daddy need a new pair of everything !
- Frazzled, or maybe Al Bundy who may in fact be the same person.