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Ok dakker heads please helps out here.. I think im right but you know....
Its nightfighting.
Unit A fire a barrage weapon at unit B
Distance is 26 inces away.. So unit B gains stealth n shrouded.
Barrage inflicts 2 wounds on unit B.
To determine cover saves from barrage wounds you take the line of fire from the centre of the blast and not the firering unit.
So is unit B still stealth n shrouded.. I say not becoz the unit is now only 2.5 inches away and not 26.
Am I right or am I wrong?. Pls have a look in the brb to refreash your memory reading the relevent entries


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Then help me out because this is an on going argument

Been many a debate on this.

The shot comes from the centre of the blast, the firing unit remains the same. Also The Stealth/Shrouded is determined when you pick the target, long before the final position of the template is determined.

 gingermist wrote:
Unit A fire a barrage weapon at unit B
Distance is 26 inces away.. So unit B gains stealth n shrouded.

This part I know is incorrect. Night Fighting gives Stealth OR Shrouded depending on distance (Rulebook, page 124), so a unit with Shrouded basic actually has a better save between 12"-24" than it does 24"-36".

As for the rest, how my group currently plays it you would still get the cover save (measuring from the unit, not the shot), and I'm aware there was a lengthy discussion on it on Dakka, but that was a real while ago and I can't remember the salient points.

You get shroud, The shot may come from the center of the blast for determining LOS & cover. BUT determining cover has nothing to do with how far apart the units are.


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For a refresher:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/508110.page

Seems to me alot of people see it different ways. Thanks for the Intel on the other thread


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Oh and the stealth and shrouded thing my dark eldar enemy has been claiming them stacking so his venoms n such like have 5^ standard then plus one for stealth plus two for shrouded giving him a 2^ bit cheeky. As its one or the other I presume

This is definitely one you should discuss with your opponent, since there seems to be a pretty close divide on the issue.

Page 12: The Shooting Sequence
"1. Nominate Unit to to Shoot.
2. Choose a Target.
3. Roll to hit.
4. Roll to Wound.
5. Allocate Wounds & Remove Casualties"

The allocation rules for Barrage weapons don't come into play until step 5, while you determine whether the unit has Stealth/Shrouded at step 2 when you check for range.

gingermist wrote: Oh and the stealth and shrouded thing my dark eldar enemy has been claiming them stacking so his venoms n such like have 5^ standard then plus one for stealth plus two for shrouded giving him a 2^ bit cheeky. As its one or the other I presume

Stealth and shrouded do stack. Pg 42, last line in the stealth rule.

Tony Spectacular wrote:

gingermist wrote: Oh and the stealth and shrouded thing my dark eldar enemy has been claiming them stacking so his venoms n such like have 5^ standard then plus one for stealth plus two for shrouded giving him a 2^ bit cheeky. As its one or the other I presume

Stealth and shrouded do stack. Pg 42, last line in the stealth rule.

They do stack, but night fighting doesn't give both, which was the point above. NightFighting gives Stealth OR Shrouded. Of course if NightFighting gave one, and the unit already had the other from other means they would stack

Clearly there is some debate.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/508110.page

Read the thread, decide with your group how to play it, or follow the poll, the choice is yours until an FaQ comes out.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Clearly there is some debate.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/508110.page

Read the thread, decide with your group how to play it, or follow the poll, the choice is yours until an FaQ comes out.

I wouldn't follow the poll, but thanks for linking it again. There should be a new poll based on RAP (rules as played) some people around here make really bizarre RAW assumptions while admitting they'd never play that way. I'm sure a RAP poll without the red herring option would go to acknowledging barrage weapons grant stealth/shroud, without all the quoting of 1/2 a sentence to say otherwise.

It is part of the fun, debating over how the rules are written and the silly/broken things it causes.

Ya it's fun. The shot is determined from the center of the hole. It's a bomb not directed bullet fire. There's no cover from distance and night that will save you.

It even says in the brb cover is determined from the blast hole.

Pretty simple interpretation IMHO .

Lungpickle wrote:
Ya it's fun. The shot is determined from the center of the hole. It's a bomb not directed bullet fire. There's no cover from distance and night that will save you.

It even says in the brb cover is determined from the blast hole.

Pretty simple interpretation IMHO .

And you would be wrong RAW wise, but play it however you all agree.

So I read barrage rules wrong? Where it states cover is not determined from the firer but from the hole in the blast marker.

Night fighting distance is used to see what cover save modifier you get.

I am perplexed at what I'm missing.

Or is it just plain stubbornness vs barrage weapons that people turn a blind eye to printed rules. Maybe the inability to admit wrong vs right, is at play.

I've read here a ton of times can't outweighs can. Applied here night fighting says you can get a cover and here's the modifier, barrage says you can't. So which is right.?

Without being pedantic which is correct?

Lungpickle wrote:
Where it states cover is not determined from the firer but from the hole in the blast marker.

Correct

Night fighting distance is used to see what cover save modifier you get.

No,
It determins if you get the Stealth / Shrouded USR.
And the Night Fighting distance is determined during the "pick a target stage".
So when you calculate your cover save (from the blast as you mentioned) you would then apply the USR that you prviously gained earlier in the shooting proces.
You gain a USR, not a cover save modifier. It's a suble but important difference.

Ok I got it. Thx.

But a quick run down

1. Stealth or shrouded from night fight not both?
2. If firing at night onto a unit hidden in a ruin at 24.5 inches away, they would have a 2 up cover save, due to night fighting and ruins.
3. Same scenario as above minus the night fight , only a 4 up cover save, due to the ruins and out of line of sight?

Thx for the help.

Lungpickle wrote:
Ok I got it. Thx.

But a quick run down

1. Stealth or shrouded from night fight not both?
2. If firing at night onto a unit hidden in a ruin at 24.5 inches away, they would have a 2 up cover save, due to night fighting and ruins.
3. Same scenario as above minus the night fight , only a 4 up cover save, due to the ruins and out of line of sight?

Thx for the help.

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. I assume you mean obscured, if so, yes.