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After a while of looking at other people' abaddon list, I believe that chosen squads should be kept to minimum. I adding what I found to work well. Constructive critcism.

Abaddon-265
Termicide, hf, pf-112

Chosen+1, 4 flamers, lc-148
Chosen, 3 flamers, lc-125
(rear obj holders)

Csm+5, 2 meltaguns, rhino, dc-200
Csm+5, 2 meltaguns, rhino, dc-200
(trade all bolters for ccw)

pred, side lc-115
Pred, side lc-115
Vindicator, combi bolter-125

Allies cd

Blood thirster-280

Blood letters+10, blood reaper, lesser reward (axe of khorne)-215
total=2000

can I attach abaddon with blood letters? If I could I would drop termicide.

You cant put abby with the blood letters because abby has all marks not just mok.

Abaddon can't join Bloodletters he doesn't have the Deamon of khorne rule, only demons can join deamons.

Letters outfitted like that is only 115pts Not 215.
PERSONALLY I would run Skarbrand is stead of bloodthirster 25pts cheaper better abilities, but No wings

Abbadon can't join the daemons but he certainly can join csm with the mark of khorne. They faqd him so he can join squads with any mark if chaos

Blood letters come in groups of 10 so +10= 20

I want the wing so it can be a fmc, vector strike enemy flyers, move 24".

So I have to keep the termicide unit to support him since he cannot join daemons. atleast everyone now has read the faq now. None of my troops have MoK.

For AA I could swap out all heavy for 3x havocs + 4 ac. frees 10pts

Drop 1 chosen + flamer for 23pts to get something else? For 33pts I can get another termi

Ok, re think about the daemons since abaddon does not provide preferred enemy: space marines for daemons.

I am re thinking if I should run naked chosen for their base attack 2+1 (ccw+pistol) combined with abaddons 12" bubble to really mess up the enemy or should I just get more csm eith their bolters traded for a ccw.

Chosen+5, rhino, dc-220 vs csm+5, 2 meltaguns, rhino, dc-200 (purchasing 9 ccw instead of trade would add 18 more pts)

10 chosen=30 attacks w/o charge
10 csm, ccw=20 attacks w/o charge

now lets see what people would choose, 10 more attacks or 2 melta/plasmaguns.

Without heldrakes, you're going to get rolled

Seriously? Has csm become such a weak army that it relies on 2 heldrakes as crutches to stand on?

Dalymiddleborro, I have been reading some of your post regarding other peoples csm army, and all I ever see you recommend are heldrakes. It almost feels like you are just trolling csm players.

I have one and I do not see the point if it easily gets shot down by storm talons/ravens, scyths and vendettas. if I take 3 heldrakes, they still have 4-6 scythes, 3-9 vendettas, and even 1 storm raven can multi fire down 2 of my drakes at once.

On top of that, is the bale flamer worth 170pts? If other armies can deal with MEq without a S6 Ap3 template, then why cant CSM?

The Heldrake is the sole reason we are a competitive tourney dex. You lost your one drake because you were only rubbing one... Furthermore yes the bale flamer is with 170 points by itself not even counting that the drake is also anti air with vector strikes. It's the best model in the game why not play it? So yes, at your points level not running two drakes will cripple you severely.

i'm on the side of heldrakes, they are really good and at worst take fire from the rest of your army. but don't be mean. 1 is plenty

4 gods sake. I will spend 170pts to get everyones' adl quad gun to shoot at my drake for a turn.

Why do I even bother going onto this site? I might as well google search for a tourney winning csm list that has 3 heldrakes in it and use it.

going back to utilizing abaddon. considering using chosen to circumvent challenge issue.Btw, I miss calculated by 100 pts on the 10 chosen vs 10 csm post.


Abaddon-265
termi+4, hf, 4 combi melta, 2 pow fist not on champ-263

4x Chosen+3, pf not on champ, 2 melta guns, 2 flamers, rhino, dc-239x4=956

Heldrake-170

3x havocs, 4 ac-115x3=345

Total=1999
edit: math wrong
if the base of the drake is 12" within abaddon, does it get to benefit from his black crusader trait?

I am considering dumping termi for a landraider if his 12" bubble works while he is embarked and if it eminates from the outer edges instead of exact center of the land raider.

Doing this will eliminate 1 rhino and 33pts thus providing 68pts as abaddon rides with 8 chosen in a lr instead of ds with 7 termi.

well you did come on this site for list advice, then complain about the advice you get????

for Christs sake, sounds like your trolling, but feel free to look on any site you choose to seek help from, and you will get the same answer about competative csm lists: you need heldrakes. its an aamazing uniy for its cost.

why not use it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
i dont know.if the landraider is a.transport for chosen, but you could drop a havok squad, take the lr as a heavy and add another heldrake!!

Might aswell tax on 3 drakes to every list just so I dont hear it.
I come here for real advice. Advise that requires time to analys and compose a meaningful and critical messasage. I feel like a film director and every critic is micheal bay yelling for more explosions. To be any more competitive than 3 drakes is to take plague marines. At that point I am playing a death guard army not an black legion army.

i can not believe this discussion on abaddon & chosen turned into a MOAR TURKEY topic.

Mandatory:
3 Turkeys=510

Abaddon-265

one squad of chosen+3, pf not on champ-169

Csm+5, 2 meltaguns, trade for ccw, rhino, dc-200
Csm+5, 2 meltaguns, trade for ccw, rhino, dc-200
Csm+5, 2 flamers, trade for ccw, rhino, dc-190

landraider, dc-235 (holding abaddon+8 chosen)
Havocs, 4 ac-115
Havocs, 4 ac-115

Total= 1999

Had to give up 3 chosen squad for regular csm.

Now can anyone tell me if they prefer to run regular csm over chosen. is it worth it to take chosen just so you can put a fist not on your champ.? Is the extra attack worth it? Can abaddon enlarge his circle of power from with in a land raider?

I wonder if this Dailymiddleboro even plays this game or just sits home and googles for best lists and trolls internet with them.

On your first list:

-3 Man terminator squad cant take heavy flamer iirc, it requires 5man.

-As stated, Abby cant join bloodletters, just swap them to 2x10 Plaguebearers that you can deep strike to objectives.

Otherwise it looks pretty good to me. Except chosens would want rhinos too.

I play this game, use two drakes and plague marines never lose. Also it can be considered black legion if you run any cult troops as abbadon is trying to unite all the legions to kill off Terry shaivo. Offering real advice in a psst requesting real advice isn't trolling and if anyone considers it to be trolling they either don't understand what trolling is, or they're terrible at it.

shan1 can you please look the list before your post? I decided to not use daemons. When I write a squad, it has a standard mininum number such as 3 termi (1 champ+2 regulars) so when I write chosen +3 that means the 5+3=8. I do this so I can write 4x chosen+3 so that means 4 groups of chosen with an additional 3 persquad. Before they included the mandatory champion, I would just write 10 csm to indicate a 10 man unit without a champ, but now I have to write csm+5 to indicate I purchased 5 more marines in addition to the champ+4 csm.

Borro, can we get past the turkey, and get into the critique of the latest list? do you want an apology? I am sorry I called you a troll. Congradulations on never losing with 2 drakes, and plague marines. Unfortunately I do not always win because I do not use drakes or plague marines since I am experimenting with other ideas to beat the cookie cutter list of plague marines & heldrakes while also side stepping other armies counters at heldrakes and plague marines.

When I said 4 gods sake, I ment the 4 chaos gods.