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Which will have no quick answer...

How, as a veteran player, would you make a competitive army from the current book?

Do you stick with the staples of 2x10 marines in Rhino and go from there?
If so... what do you add to this?

Marines are not a cc based army, nor are they shooty, they hold that mid ground of being average at everything.

Puscifer wrote:
How, as a veteran player, would you make a competitive army from the current book?

That depends on your metagame and what you define as "competitive". I've played using my friends' marine armies a few times, never really found them to be weak, but then again, I'm used to playing non-Marine armies.

I have a good mix of everything that is not a vanilla marine in my local meta.

My kids bought me Sicarius for Father's Day and I'm enjoying painting him and wondered what a TAC competitive army would have in it.

As it stands, I think the Marines are mid tier still and have been like that for ages.

Well, if you play vanilla SM, then Tactical squads are your backbone. They are good for holding objectives. For this, they need some transport which also protect them from getting shot down. Hello Helldrake. You have to work from there: shooty support (Rifleman Dreads, Vindicators, Preds), flyers (Storm Talons), counter-strike units (Assault Termies), and HQ (Libby with nullzone).

Bikes as troops, T5 3+ 5++ scoring units with the option of two special weapons and the addition of a multi melts on a platform that negates that weapons chief disadvantage?

Gotta be worth thinking about.

I will go with 3 units, 2x rhino, 1 sternguard and a riffleman dread. With that, you have your core of your army. All you need is to work around that.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, if you play vanilla SM, then Tactical squads are your backbone. They are good for holding objectives. For this, they need some transport which also protect them from getting shot down. Hello Helldrake. You have to work from there: shooty support (Rifleman Dreads, Vindicators, Preds), flyers (Storm Talons), counter-strike units (Assault Termies), and HQ (Libby with nullzone).

Yeah, I'm down with the Libby and null zone. Seems to be a great hard counter to a number of nasty units - opposing TH/SS squads for one.

Got this as the core so far. Has plenty of firepower and has answers to TAC.

Space Marine Librarian: Null Zone; bolt pistol. 100

5 Sternguard Veterans: 4× combi-plasma. 220
• Razorback: lascannon; twin-linked plasma gun.

10 Tactical Marines: plasma gun; missile launcher. 215
• Rhino
10 Tactical Marines: plasma gun; missile launcher. 215
• Rhino

750 points

So it's basically a case of form a solid core of troops and pick what I like as no real vanilla unit is bad?

By the way, the Libby has access to another psychic power.
Gate is great if you add some Drop Pods with locator beacons. Avenger is also useful if you let him join the Sternguard.

I've been running Drop Pods for a while now, and can't complain about it. Tactical squads plus the occasional support from some Sternguard. Maybe a Land Raider with some assault termies and Vulkan if you're feeling saucy.

Khan on foot
Librarian on foot
2 ten man scout squads
3 Stormtalons
3 Thunderfires

Primaris psyker
2 PCS
2 50 man blobs with power axes and krak grenades
Manticore if you have the points.

Codex Marines share one major trait with Chaos Space Marines. Bodies in power armor suck. CSM use cultists. Codex Marines get Scouts and Guard blobs. Then the Fast Attack and Heavy Support do the heavy lifting.

Puscifer wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, if you play vanilla SM, then Tactical squads are your backbone. They are good for holding objectives. For this, they need some transport which also protect them from getting shot down. Hello Helldrake. You have to work from there: shooty support (Rifleman Dreads, Vindicators, Preds), flyers (Storm Talons), counter-strike units (Assault Termies), and HQ (Libby with nullzone).

Yeah, I'm down with the Libby and null zone. Seems to be a great hard counter to a number of nasty units - opposing TH/SS squads for one.

Got this as the core so far. Has plenty of firepower and has answers to TAC.

Space Marine Librarian: Null Zone; bolt pistol. 100

5 Sternguard Veterans: 4× combi-plasma. 220
• Razorback: lascannon; twin-linked plasma gun.

10 Tactical Marines: plasma gun; missile launcher. 215
• Rhino
10 Tactical Marines: plasma gun; missile launcher. 215
• Rhino

750 points

So it's basically a case of form a solid core of troops and pick what I like as no real vanilla unit is bad?

This list looks groovy.

As for no unit being bad.
ehhhhh...
Vanguard vets be to differ

I'd split at least one tac squad into combat squads; give one half a razorback, camp the other half on a home objective. Stern might be better in a drop pod to get them where they need to be.
Vindicators are nice support (I do wish I could afford some). Then there is the obligatory ADL with quad-gun.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
Khan on foot
Librarian on foot
2 ten man scout squads
3 Stormtalons
3 Thunderfires

Primaris psyker
2 PCS
2 50 man blobs with power axes and krak grenades
Manticore if you have the points.

Codex Marines share one major trait with Chaos Space Marines. Bodies in power armor suck. CSM use cultists. Codex Marines get Scouts and Guard blobs. Then the Fast Attack and Heavy Support do the heavy lifting.

100% agreed that power armor is crap in 6th.

Your list is also very similar to what Tony used in Adepticon. He had 2 5 man tactical squads in outflanking rhinos, khan on foot and I'm not sure he had 2 blobs....might have been only one. Thunderfires and storm talons really have to do most of the heavy lifting, because tacticals are at best poor, and at worst the worst troop squad in the game point for point. Far too many weapons ignore cover and/or power armor in 6th to make them viable. Hell, even in 5th tactical marines were crap. They are the backbone of your army, and their damage output and their survivability is laughable compared to the top shelf troops in the game.

The real interesting thing is going to be what happens to them in their new codex, because we all know the thunderfire cannon is going up in cost at least 25 points, and even a cut of 2 points per model on our tacticals won't balance that out. It's a grim time to be a space marine.

Beware that the Librarian dies very easily if he is not carefully protected. I might toss him in Terminator armor just to make sure he doesn't die (since he's the only stock Space Marine HQ that doesn't come with an invulnerable save).

I would hope with a new codex that Codex: Space Marines Tactical Marines get more options, like taking a special & heavy weapon in a 5 man squad, or 2 special weapons, to allow more varied list building and new options. Tactical Marines should be the preferred, most effective Troop Choice for Codex: Space Marines; it will be interesting to see how they make them this way. The only thing I could see would be that and making them cost less. I hope Rhinos stay at 35 pts, though, I love the inexpensive transports.

Yeah, I'm noticing a lot of Marine armies taking less Marines and maxing out on other stuff.

Seems like the same for most MEQ forces.

Two Tac squads split into Combat Squads, one in a Razorback the other as a rearguard objective holder. Then everything else is Terminators, Tanks and Flyers, which seems boring to me.

I got a look at the Minotaurs list - very impressive stuff. Their amazing fluff not withstanding, their SC are insane.

Moloc for example brings a great deal to a Marine force when facing 50% of the other army types. His Dark Fury rule is fantastic too, but you'd want to put him with TH/SS Terminators which gain no advantage from it.

Enkomi on the other hand makes Assault Squads much better. Rage USR, a free Jump Pack and an AP 3 Crozius. This guy has all the tools and he isn't all that pricey at 155.

Aiakos - so far the only Venerable Contemptor seems good, but at his high points, I'm not too sure. Definitely built for destroying tarpits with Groundstrike.

If I did do a Marine army, which I highly doubt, I'd have to go for either Ultramarines - I love the Blue and Gold colour scheme or Minotaurs just for the fact they are evil loyalist Space Marines under the control of the High Lords. Who are now looking like they are the sole reason why the Imperium is like it is due to their control. They want to stay in charge and they have a full strength Chapter to keep them there.