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I am curious about something, it seems like back when I first started getting into 40k (end of 3rd edition) the "average battle" was 1500 points. Now when i look at the army list page on this forum, as well as just random discussion in the tactics section, it seems like most people are designing around 1850 (what a weird number...) or 2000 (or "1999+1") lists.

Does anyone else think that the average points per battle is increased over what it used to be? If so, why do you think this is?

The 2nd edition 'standard' was 2000 points. 3rd ed reset everything, and 1500 points was the new 'standard' but was about equivalent size-wise to a 2000 point 2nd ed game. As people became familiar with the system, that game size gradually crept up, and by the end of 3rd edition most tournaments seem to have been running at around about the 1750 mark.

It's mainly just about the size of game that can be fit into the available time. In casual games, I still see a lot of 1500 being played, and a fair amount of 750 for that matter. Tournaments range from 1500 to 1850 around here. 2000 is less common... and I haven't seen a local tournie advertising the ridiculous 1999+1, which I wouldn't enter on general principle...

What is with 1850? it does seam a very odd number of points to play.

I think 1500 is a pretty good size, i usually build about 2000 points of models for variety though.

For what ever reason, 1850 seems to be really big in tournaments. 2000/1999+1 is also big.

I tend to build my armies up to 2000 points, so that way I can adjust as needed. My group usually plays around 1000-1500 though.

 stargasm wrote:
What is with 1850? it does seam a very odd number of points to play.

I think it just evolved... 1750 was halfway between 1500 and 2000, so was popular for a while. But people wanted to add just that little bit more, and so some tournies pushed it up that extra hundred points, and it just sort of caught on.

I've found 1850 to be the comfortable level to build any kind of list you really. Hordes galore, your ideal deathstar with support, a nicely spread out take comers.

Is 1999+1 simple 2k without a double force chart?

 Dakkamite wrote:
Is 1999+1 simple 2k without a double force chart?

jupp.

 Dakkamite wrote:
Is 1999+1 simple 2k without a double force chart?

Exactly. It's a 2000 point game without double FOC for the people who think they're clever in finding a loophole in the rules that lets them play a single-FOC game without admitting that they're using a house rule. It's 1999+1 because it's a 1999 point game (under 2000, single FOC) but you're allowed to be one point over the limit. Yes, it really is that stupid.

Yeah... it's a ridiculous idea. If you want to run a tournie with single FOC lists, just restrict it to single FOCs. Or run it as 1999 points. There's absolutely no need for the '+1'.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
Is 1999+1 simple 2k without a double force chart?

Exactly. It's a 2000 point game without double FOC for the people who think they're clever in finding a loophole in the rules that lets them play a single-FOC game without admitting that they're using a house rule. It's 1999+1 because it's a 1999 point game (under 2000, single FOC) but you're allowed to be one point over the limit. Yes, it really is that stupid.

God do you ever stop? You can't help but post your opinion on everything which is usually poorly framed with what I assume passes for wit with you. 1999+1 exists because some people like it (shocking, I know). How is it a house rule? The rule book doesn't explicitly say that games above 2k use 2 charts, it suggests that you are allowed, but it's not a hard and fast rule that you make it out to be.

- Edited by insaniak. Please see Dakka's Rule #1 -

MarsNZ wrote:
1999+1 exists because some people like it (shocking, I know).

Then play a 2000 point game with a "no double FOC" house rule. You don't need to try to impress everyone with the "loophole" you found.

How is it a house rule?

Because it's a game at 2000 points where double FOC is banned.

The rule book doesn't explicitly say that games above 2k use 2 charts, it suggests that you are allowed, but it's not a hard and fast rule that you make it out to be.

It's allowed. That's perfectly explicit. You don't have to use it if you choose not to (for example, you only want three units of troops in your army), but that's no different than troops being 2-6. You have an option to take up to 6 troops, but you don't have to. You do not have an option to deny your opponent the ability to take 6 troops without making a house rule.

It's not a house rule, though. The reason it's played is because it isn't a house rule, whereas if it was said 'No double FOC' it would be. The difference is subtle, but important.

People may think they're clever and they aren't house ruling by having 1999+1, but really they're just deluding themselves.

Just say its a 2k tournament with only a single FoC allowed. Nobody is going to stop you, and anybody that would care probably wasn't coming either way.

1999+1 is the same as having a 2k tournament with only a single FoC allowed. Just accept it, its a house rule. The normal game is that at 2k you get a second optional FoC, anything that alters that is a house rule.

Waaaghpower wrote:
It's not a house rule, though. The reason it's played is because it isn't a house rule, whereas if it was said 'No double FOC' it would be. The difference is subtle, but important.

No, disallowing a second FOC at 2000 points is a house rule, because the actual rules allow you to take a second FOC at 2000 points.

'1999+1' doesn't actually mean anything. 1999+1 is 2000. If you're running a 1999+1 point event, you're running a 2000 point event. If you're not allowing players to use a second FOC, then that's a house rule for that event.