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2k tourney in August, gotta start painting now, this is list I'm planning on going with:

Daemon Prince, Tzeentch, Black mace, Power Armor, Wings [WARLORD]
Daemon Prince, Khorne, Axe of Blind Fury, Power Armor, Wings

10 Cultist
10 Cultist
5 Marines with Meltagun in Rhino
5 Marines with Meltagun in Rhino

Heldrake
5 Nurgle Spawns
5 Nurgle Spawns

3 Obliterators, Mark of Nurgles & Veterans
Maulerfiend with Lasher Tendrils
Maulerfiend with Lasher Tendrils

Aegis Defence Line with Quadgun

1997/2000

Pretty much everything is on your face on second turn, unless its Hammer and anvil, then its third turn. Im wondering if I should drop khorne prince and one marine group and take Bloodthirster with Exalted and Greater reward + 10 Plaguebearers. What do you think about this?

E: Fixed Nurgle prince mark.

I like the speed and overwhelm concept, it seems rather short on scoring though. However, if you reserve the cultists and get the rest of the army in their face before they come onto the board, I could see it working. Between the DP's the spawn, and the Maulers, that's some serious CC that you should be able to bring to their doorstep turn 1.

ShadarLogoth wrote:
I like the speed and overwhelm concept, it seems rather short on scoring though. However, if you reserve the cultists and get the rest of the army in their face before they come onto the board, I could see it working. Between the DP's the spawn, and the Maulers, that's some serious CC that you should be able to bring to their doorstep turn 1.

Indeed, thats what Im aiming for, maybe swapping rhino group and khorne prince to blood thister with portalglyph might give me some more scoring with plaguebearers.

Speed is nice, I like this type of playstyle, its just hard to make a competitive build, I am devoted to come up with a list similiar and competitive soon...Haha.

Your gonna get steam rolled without at least two heldrakes

Is it just me or do your scoring units look really weak? Cultists are super squishy and 5 man units of CSM can go poof very easily.

 Grugknuckle wrote:
Is it just me or do your scoring units look really weak? Cultists are super squishy and 5 man units of CSM can go poof very easily.

It's the CSM dex, they are all squishy and garbage unless you spam out plague marines. You kill the opponents scoring units before you lose all of your scoring units or turns expire.

@OP, Drop or switch the nurgle daemon prince. Nurgle is trash when if comes to daemon princes. You can't run, and you can sweep a unit falling back.

I also have to agree at 2k you bring 2 heldrakes. This is competitive correct? Maulerfiends also don't fall into the "Competitive" category. I would drop them for more nurgle obliterators.

I'm not a fan of the 10-man Cultist units. It's far too easy for them to flee off the table just from taking 2-3 casualties. Either blob them, or just buy more members for both units.

I can't really see what your plan for the Quad Gun is. Your CSM are in Rhinos so I'm assuming they're hoping to get close and personal, and your Cultists are hopefully coming in from reserve to minimise casualties, what's the point of the ADL?

I think in general, you're lacking anti-tank firepower. Against most armies at the 2K level, you're almost certain to come up against a few AV13-14 units. You're going to need more than 3x Obliterators and a couple of Meltaguns to deal with them. I'd recommend dropping both Maulerfields (which, let's be honest, just aren't that good) and replacing them with Forgefiends or Double/Triple-Las Predators.

I think you need more troops or you should drop both csm squad and take more killy units. Perhaps a termi deathstar. If you can turn every game into an anihilation game where you kill all his scoring unit then you should be fine.

 Filch wrote:
If you can turn every game into an anihilation game where you kill all his scoring unit then you should be fine.

QFT.

For competitive play CSM troops are gak tier and a waste of points you could have spent on destroying his troops and hopes. Reserve them and hope they keep failing to come in off the board edge all game, than grab your objective(s) T4 and 5.

When I play a game with my CSM the game objectives are next to irrelivant. It's First Blood, Warlord, Kill his troops. GG.

Also @OP, I notice this now but not in my previous post. Your Khorne DP should never have the Axe, the -1 WS will allow marine scum to hit you on 4's again.

Drop 1 unit of spawn for another hell turkey. Drop the axe of blind fury prince for a chaos loard on a bike with PF and LC with MON to run with the remaining spawn. Rest is fine.

 Goat wrote:

 Filch wrote:
If you can turn every game into an anihilation game where you kill all his scoring unit then you should be fine.

Also @OP, I notice this now but not in my previous post. Your Khorne DP should never have the Axe, the -1 WS will allow marine scum to hit you on 4's again.

I doubt this'll be much of a problem. With the DP's remaining stats and the bonus attacks granted by the Axe, there'll be few Marines left to strike back to any real effect.

LOL at all the "bring more hellturkey comments." Completely missing the point of how the list is suppose to function. One Helldrake is all this list needs, anymore takes away from the fast board presence. CSM players would improve exponentially if they learned to quit hiding behind their Helldrakes.

We're not hiding behind heldrakes, we're simply using the best tools at out disposal... Not bringing them is pointless they're arguably the best unit in the game. Why wouldn't you take them?

i agree that your scoring units seem a little light, and the rhinos may very likely give up first blood. I also agree that you don't need more heldrakes. 1 is plenty and the psychology they bring to the table is absolutely hilarious.

I'd be interested to hear how playtesting went. good win %?

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
We're not hiding behind heldrakes, we're simply using the best tools at out disposal... Not bringing them is pointless they're arguably the best unit in the game. Why wouldn't you take them?

Because they don't score, don't have any board presence, and often don't come in till turn 4. Also, they aren't bikes or spawn, both of which a very good units in there own right that can directly effect how a CSM army works.

Helldrakes are good, but they aren't capable of winning the game on their own. The best CSM lists are the ones that diversify their Fast Attack.

Oh boy, so many comments, thanks.

Troops: Yes, they are weak but like many have already said, I dont really see point of taking troops on CSM side without nurgle lord, and Im not interested in dropping one of the princes for lord that would just slow my spawns, but I gotta think about it.

AV13/14: You do realize that I really dont have to shoot them down when I have 4x S10 smackers and 10x S5, and I cant remember anything else having 14 rear than land raider.

Heldrakes: No thanks, "One Helldrake is all this list needs, anymore takes away from the fast board presence. " this summed it up pretty well.

Axe on DP: Well it also gives me D6 more smash attacks, and like someone said, I doubt there will be too many marines striking back, especially as I'm FMC and I get to choose combat where I go if I dont roll horribly.

ADL: Just to fill up points. I could trade Quadgun for third cultist group or something, I'm maxed on fast/heavy so I cant think of anything to get, CSM termies seem to be pretty bad if I dont play termicide units.

Rhinos: Well if they give up first blood on turn they arrive from reserve (2/3), then I have already lost the game if Im not on combat on that turn.

Nurgle Prince: Yeah, noticed that already, have played it as Tz, dont know why it says nurgle there.

"You are gonna get steamrolled without 2 heldrakes" Lol.

Maulerfiend -> Oblits: No thanks, if I'd drop maulerfiends I could just go full dull heldrake/oblits spam and that's not what I'm looking for.



Thanks for the comments everyone. Keep them coming.

Playtesting has gone pretty well, win against pod SW and tie against new eldar.

i'm a fan of psychic DP... but they may end up too points heavy