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For this list I'm focusing on destroying new Eldar. I just got the book and read through most of it and came up with the conclusion that they are going to be a bitch and a half to take down. So here is what I have so far. Oh and just to be clear, my friend is going to be using NO FLYERS.



HQ:
Cadre Fireblade: 2 Marker drones= 84 points
Ethereal (Warlord): Honor blade, Blacksun filter, Homing beacon, 2 Shield drones= 89 points
Elites:
Crisis Team 1: 3 Fire Knives (plasma rifle, missile pod): 3 Early warning overrides= 171 points
Riptide Shas’vre: Ion accelerator, Twin-linked SMS, Early warning override, Stimulant injector= 225 points
Troops:
12 Fire Warriors: Shas’ui, Bonding knife ritual= 130 points
12 Fire Warriors: Shas’ui= 118 points
12 Fire Warriors: Shas’ui= 118 points
9 Fire Warriors: 9 Pulse carbines: Shas’ui= 91 points
Devilfish: Point defense targeting relay, Disruption pod, 2 Seeker missiles= 121 points
Devilfish: Point defense targeting relay, Disruption pod, 2 Seeker missiles= 121 points
Fast Attack:
Pathfinder Team: Shas’ui: 7 Pulse carbines and markerlights, Bonding knife ritual= 94 points
Sun Shark Bomber: Twin-linked missile pod, Disruption pod, Automated repair system, Decoy launchers= 188 points
Heavy Support:
3 Broadsides: Twin-linked heavy rail-rifles, Twin-linked SMS, 3 Early warning overrides, Bonding knife ritual= 261 points
Hammerhead: Railgun, Twin-linked SMS, Submunition rounds, Longstrike, 2 Seeker missiles, Disruption pod, Automated repair system= 207 points

Total: 1994 points

Haha, I'm doing the opposite of you, trying to make a list to destroy tau.
Well, Wraithlords and Wraithknights are pointless vs Tau because you can destroy them with Fire warriors. I mean come on- like a 9 point model that could kill a 240 point model in one turn potentially. Oh hell no!
I would say Hemlocks will screw you over, but he doesn't have any so that is fine.
I guess psychic powers are one of the main problems, but there isn't much you can do about them really is there? Tau haven't got any psychic protection.
So- he will be maneuvering about like crazy with battle focus, so you want to use markerlites to negate any cover he will be getting.
A set of 20 kroot outflanking is always a pain for me, because of the sheer number of shots they can get, not to mention the f*ing sniper rounds they have.
I am not sure if i would bother with the Fish, because he will probably have a lot that can stop vehicles. Bright lance, Fire Prism, D-cannon, Firepike, Fusion guns, Starshot missiles, Wraithcannons, Singing spears, Even scatter lasers can do it from sheer volume of fire. So vehicles might be fragile.
Again, Kroot that outflank near some dark reapers is the most hideous thing in the world. Though a well placed plasma blast and a few starswarm missiles will kill about six and give you a pinning test, so it isn't dependable.
Though Dark reapers are going to be a big threat for you, with their high saves, which could be moved to a 2+ with a well placed protect spell. Not to mention possibly 8 ap3's hitting you in the face. Or maybe 6 strength 8 shots aiming for that pricey tank in the corner. So try deal with them. They also can have a Flakk missiles, which are the only eldar thing with skyfire.
Ideally you need some luck with psychic rolls. If he gets a bunch of warlocks who end up with conceal/reveal you're fine. But then a bunch with Jinx/Protect or Destructor/Renewer are gonna be a right pain. Again with a Farseer, If he gets Death Wish then you're probably not going to be facing more than two powers a turn, but say he gets Guide Doom and Forture, and you'll be in trouble.
So... Well it's down to luck and Killing Dark Reapers by the sound of it xD
The Sunshark might be good, though i dunno what it does. Fire warriors screw wraith armies. I am not sure about the Broadsides, though i play Footdar and many people have 2000+ wave serpents in their army...
So- i hope i have helped in some way- and maybe in return you can tell me what screws over Tau xD
Cheers xD

Thats funny, I didn't expect to find an Eldar player trying so hard to beat Tau. Maybe we can work together lol.

So here is what bother me about Eldar:

Outflanking War Walkers, he always brings a couple to mess with my Hammerhead. He places them in the back of it and usually destroys or cripples it.
Wraithguard, he has a bunch of them and they have instant death weapons. They can kill my Riptide.
Battle Focus, in general, he is a very maneuverable kind of guy. I know he will be putting it to good use.
Farseers, I think my problem with them is that all the psychic powers are really good and I don't know which ones he will roll.
Swooping Hawks and Warp Spiders, they can deep strike and mess my fire warriors and ethereal up.

What I plan to do:

Intercept. Intercept. Intercept. I plan on doing a lot of that. Because of all the stuff potentially coming out of no where I want to make sure my Hammerhead and Ethereal stay alive.
Shoot. Shoot. Shoot. Shoot. Shoot. Shoot. Shoot. And never stop shooting. What Tau is better at doing than Eldar and will continue to be better at.

If you can find a way to get through all this shooting let me know.

Huh? All the psychic powers are really good? Lies!
Some are really not useful.
for Runes of Fate- Death Mission is kind of a joke, Executioner isn't great, mind war now costs 2 warp charge and damages the farseer on a not so good roll.
Generally the rule is that you roll on Runes of fate, if you get something good eg- Doom, Fortune, you roll again. If you get anything else, you take guide and roll off divination xD
If he has a Spiritseer with protect and he throws them in with the wraithguard, then you have a unit of 2+ saves with ap2 instant death weapons that are scoring. Ouch.
Swooping Hawks are better now with their grenade packs, and they no longer scatter, so they become a great deep strike unit.
War walkers with Scatter lasers are now absolute beasts. 5++ inv and 24 strength 6 shots each turn is going to kill something. 12 armour will struggle against the sheer number of hits it's gonna get.
They will also likely decimate any fire warriors and munch Kroot. The guy i play has like 60 Kroot... Unfortunately i have 0 war walkers, i will change that soon as i can.
Shame he has no Flyers... A hemlock must be awful to Tau. Combo Hemlock with warlocks/Spiritseers with Horrify and you are in trouble.
Anyway- Warp spiders are another thing i don't have, but i have heard that they are very good.
TBH the guy i play gaks himself at the mention of howling banshees. I have five on foot, one with a triskele, and he is scared of them. Maybe because they rip battlesuits to pieces...

I would swap one of the devilfish for another pathfinder team personally, I don't think you have enough markerlights, and devilfish aren't great. You could swap the other for something else, such as some shield drones in the crisis team and a shas'vre (ld9 is a big improvement for crisis teams, and gives you the opportunity for precision fire with his weapons that will ID eldar characters.

Infact, if you disagree with taking too many more pathfinders, you could swap both devilfish for a hammerhead with a Dpod and submunitions, 4 shield drones and shas'vre in the crisis team, and then add 3 more pathfinders, and split them into 2 squads of 5, this allows you to spread your marker hits more, or focus on a unit you really want dead. And somewhat eases the issue of losing all your pathfinders to one squad's shooting.

I would also take the pulse carbine team and give them rifles, eldar have a hell of a lot of mid-short range firepower, and the further the tau are from that, the better. Also I tend to find rifles are better than carbines anyway, even though the carbine has 2 shots at 3" further,its just not worth it for the 30" range of the rifle. The pinning is also too unreliable to use effectively.

Also with your 5 spare points give the hammerhead sensor spines. 5 points to be able to crouch in a ruin for a 3+ cover thanks to the DPod without fear of immobilisation is fantastic.

Dunno if any of that sounds helpful or just sounds like total BS wishin ya luck ;D

You should probably field three full sets of gun drones and the Aun'Va

 TWilkins wrote:
You should probably field three full sets of gun drones and the Aun'Va

Ummmmmmm.... are you serious?

No...
I just like gun drones.
And as far as the Aun'Va is concerned... I'm not even 100% sure if he has an armour save...
But gun drones are cool... Pinning... And they look kinda cute all flying around and stuff xD

 TWilkins wrote:
No...
I just like gun drones.
And as far as the Aun'Va is concerned... I'm not even 100% sure if he has an armour save...
But gun drones are cool... Pinning... And they look kinda cute all flying around and stuff xD

He has a 5+ armor but his paradox makes it so he has a save role of whatever the AP of the gun he is getting shot by is

so AP 1 wont hurt him
AP 2 is a 2+

but if i understand it AP - weapons will make him just roll his 5+ so he will basicly always have a 5+ or better save. (i think)

As an Eldar player, Tau are the main army that scares me at the moment. I don't like facing armies shootier than my own.

On what works, anything that ignores cover does the job well. Take away jink saves from his skimmers, and terrain saves from his troops. Seeker missiles and Missile-sides are the way to go, I think....I don't know all that much about Tau.

Of your list of worries;

Outflanking War Walkers, he always brings a couple to mess with my Hammerhead. He places them in the back of it and usually destroys or cripples it.
Wraithguard, he has a bunch of them and they have instant death weapons. They can kill my Riptide.
Battle Focus, in general, he is a very maneuverable kind of guy. I know he will be putting it to good use.
Farseers, I think my problem with them is that all the psychic powers are really good and I don't know which ones he will roll.
Swooping Hawks and Warp Spiders, they can deep strike and mess my fire warriors and ethereal up.

War Walkers are 60 points each, as a minimum. Let him outflank them, then you can down them with Firewarriors. Av10 open-topped doesn't like Str5.
Wraithguard shouldn't get anywhere near your riptide. You've got a jump pack, and wraithguard are slow with a short range. Overcharge your jump pack if you need to.
Battle focus does make things very manouverable. But he's still on foot, and you've got quite a bit of shooting. Castle up, and deal with threats as they arise.
Don't bother thinking too much about farseers. There's next to nothing you can do about them, aside from shooting the hell out of whichever units he's hiding in. Accept that he will cast guide, fortune, doom and the like. A quick tip, don't bother shooting at the fortuned unit, unless you've got something that ignores whatever save he's relying on. It's just not worth it. He probably wants you to shoot at them, instead of hitting the juicier targets.
On Hawks - get additional pathfinders. Accept that he's going to kill a squad when they come in. This is what they do best. Make sure you've got the table covered for interceptor fire. Don't give him a safe place to land them.
On Spiders - i'm not sure. They are of course, highly mobile. If he's smart, you won't have a chance to shoot at them. If he makes a mistake, or rolls badly for their jetpack, concentrate on them. Spiders will mess pretty much anything up. They can do quite a bit of damage against everything in the game, except Av14.



Most important peice of advice, is to have many markerlights to take away cover, and use seeker missiles. Those are the things that scare me. I'd recommend AT LEAST two squads of pathfinders.

 TWilkins wrote:
I mean come on- like a 9 point model that could kill a 240 point model in one turn potentially. Oh hell no!

Uh...what? How do you figure? Wraithknights and wraithlords have toughness 8. A firewarrior can't even wound them.

 Grugknuckle wrote:

 TWilkins wrote:
I mean come on- like a 9 point model that could kill a 240 point model in one turn potentially. Oh hell no!

Uh...what? How do you figure? Wraithknights and wraithlords have toughness 8. A firewarrior can't even wound them.

Only on 6s

 Grugknuckle wrote:

 TWilkins wrote:
I mean come on- like a 9 point model that could kill a 240 point model in one turn potentially. Oh hell no!

Uh...what? How do you figure? Wraithknights and wraithlords have toughness 8. A firewarrior can't even wound them.

Strength 5 wounds toughness 8 on a 6
I didn't realise it either before i was told.

Aye it's insane, all the firewarrior needs to do is stay 108 turns in rapid fire range, and Wham! Down goes the wraithknight!

EDIT : Redacted.

Strength 5 is another 6+ on toughness 8. it goes:
2+ 3+ 4+ 5+ 6+ 6+

DanFST wrote:
Strength 5 is another 6+ on toughness 8. it goes:
2+ 3+ 4+ 5+ 6+ 6+

Yup. Just checked for myself. Can you tell I don't run into too many T8 models in my games?

 Grugknuckle wrote:

I'll have to double check the BRB, but I'm pretty sure you need at least S6 to wound T8.

S8 wounds T8 on a 4+
S7 wounds T8 on a 5+
S6 wounds T8 on a 6+
S5 or less cannot wound T8.

Isn't it funny how people that don't even know the basic rules think the best use of their time is to answer topics in a forum, instead of reading the rulebook until they have at least a rudimentary knowledge of it?

S5 vs T8 wounds on a 6. Like every other Strength value versus a Toughness three points higher.

EDIT: nice editing while i was writing

I just played a 2k game, my tau versus a non Flyer, eldar list. Items of note:
a. SMS, from my Ionhead and b-sides helped to remove the guardian jetbikes from a center objective, that was LOS-blocking. With Battle Focus, it's going to come in very handy for a lot of eldar units copying JSJ of Crisis Teams.
b. Markers removing Cover. Warlocks grant extra cover, and he had an autarch on a bike and he had a 2+ ... I forget what the game mechanic was (barely read through my new eldar codex). Anyway, that dude was my First Blood score.
c. I never did get around to dealing with two of his Pathfinder/Ranger units. I wish I had, as they'd done the most to me, with 6, yes, 6 failed Pinning checks (ethereal's leadrship, too!), Anyway, just two Markers to grant Ignores Cover and blow those snipers away. At 2k, I kept shooting at other things.
d. While fast, my opponent's WarpSpiders were in two 5 packs and easily killed, but watch out if he runs a 10 pack. They got in a few licks before SMS pasted them.

Still, I must've done it right. It was a dual mission, Kill Points and 3 objectives. I won on both.

On to your list:

 TheCadreofFi'rios wrote:
Cadre Fireblade: 2 Marker drones= 84 points
Ethereal (Warlord): Honor blade, Blacksun filter, Homing beacon, 2 Shield drones= 89 points

Honor Blade? Just cause you like the model, eh? I'd toss the upgrade and the Drones. Maybe change to MarkerDs.

 TheCadreofFi'rios wrote:
Troops:
12 Fire Warriors: Shas’ui, Bonding knife ritual= 130 points
12 Fire Warriors: Shas’ui= 118 points
12 Fire Warriors: Shas’ui= 118 points
9 Fire Warriors: 9 Pulse carbines: Shas’ui= 91 points
Devilfish: Point defense targeting relay, Disruption pod, 2 Seeker missiles= 121 points
Devilfish: Point defense targeting relay, Disruption pod, 2 Seeker missiles= 121 points

As a matter of game philosophy and 6e *not* favoring vehicles (except Mech IG, go figure) I don't like D'fish. It's points spent on very little dakka, and points spent having FWs inside a truck, not shooting. I'd scrap the D'fish and add an XV8 HQ and bodyguards, if ya got 'em.

With an ethereal, leadership upgrades are unnecessary. Set up your 45 FW gun-line and and watch him keep his troops out of your 30" radius bubble.

 TheCadreofFi'rios wrote:
Crisis Team 1: 3 Fire Knives (plasma rifle, missile pod): 3 Early warning overrides= 171 points
Riptide Shas’vre: Ion accelerator, Twin-linked SMS, Early warning override, Stimulant injector= 225 points

There's enough SMS and STR5 in your list, but not enough AP1. While I think your Riptide is going to get Doomed, and then sniped to death, I wonder about the enemy's tanks?

Is he gonna have WaveSerpents? Falcons, Deathspinners? Anyway, perhaps a TL-FB is better than the SMS, and certainly for busting a cap in a AV10 WarW.

I defeated the Outflanking WarWs by parking the Ionhead's rear in the corner. The gun's range is plenty. Then there was a unit of FWs in front of the tank and the enemy WWs had no place to move close enough to the tank to get rear or even side shots. My opponent had to place the WarWs on an arc that was nose, AV13. He shot Crisis Suits instead. I destroyed the Walkers on my next turn.

So, while the EWO is a good counter measure (and I chafed at the XV8 casualties) good deployment will keep the HammerHead safe from WWs.

 TheCadreofFi'rios wrote:
Fast Attack:
Pathfinder Team: Shas’ui: 7 Pulse carbines and markerlights, Bonding knife ritual= 94 points

Add the two more PFs so it takes 3 dead to cause morale. Again, if the ethereal in on the table, and within the 12" bubble, you don't need an Ui.

 TheCadreofFi'rios wrote:
Sun Shark Bomber: Twin-linked missile pod, Disruption pod, Automated repair system, Decoy launchers= 188 points

Haven't used it, so no comment.

 TheCadreofFi'rios wrote:
3 Broadsides: Twin-linked heavy rail-rifles, Twin-linked SMS, 3 Early warning overrides, Bonding knife ritual= 261 points

Ah, sad. No Missile-Ds. I have been using HYMPs, with the MissileDs. With Marker help, these are the units that my opponents hate most. Volume fire, of a STR 7 nature. I believe, MathHammer-wise, they're better for smashing AV11 or less, than the Railrifle. I recommend you try them.

 TheCadreofFi'rios wrote:
Hammerhead: Railgun, Twin-linked SMS, Submunition rounds, Longstrike, 2 Seeker missiles, Disruption pod, Automated repair system= 207 points

You have a lot of fatty upgrades:
Uis, LongStrike, Shield Ds. And the D'fish.

I'd toss them for Missile Ds, an XV8 HQ and mates. I'd love to have a PM on how your match went.

Yea, some of the little things in this list aren't what you would call optimal but its what I have: for example the Shas'uis, ethereal's honor blade, only 7 pathfinders. But I'm getting the new pathfinder kit so that should be fixed soon.

Ok, my recommendations: lose both Devilfish. Here's the thing: Eldar weapons don't have spectacular range (as far as their standard infantry weapons go), so, more than likely, he's going to be Wave Serpent spamming or bike spamming, which are stupid fast so he'll be up in your grill before you'd be up in his. That's fine, let him come to you; he's really got no choice in the matter since he can't out-range you.

Also, lose the Sunshark. It is a nifty flyer,but more Pathfinders would be more practical, especially for removing those 2+ or 3+ Jink saves he'd be getting.

I agree with the others and you should try Broadsides with HY missiles and missile drones, especially against Eldar. See, against Wave Serpents (which are really the MVPs of Eldar now), that single penetrating hit you'd get with a heavy rail rifle on a 2+ suddenly becomes a glance, but, if you're spamming a ton of str 7 shots, you've effectively rendered his serpent shield useless as you're probably still going to be generating enough glances to wreck it. Also, it'll really give his war walkers something to fear as they're only av 10... If the problem is you don't have the models, easy conversion (if you have the old Broadside models like I do): crap ton of missile pods, stack them, should mount them. Missile drones are even easier.

Finally, if you've taken my advice and dropped the fish and the bomber, I would recommend using the 430 some odd points freed up and investing in a couple full-20 man Kroot squads with sniper rounds (the bane of any model who's name starts with "Wraith" ) and a single kroot hound to grant acute senses, it'll give him a taste of his own medicine when he sees those 20 guys outflanking on his side of the board rapid-firing his Guardians or Dire Avengers to death. Also, an ADL as it really is a Tau's best friend now, I recommend one in ALL Tau lists. And, of course, more Pathfinders.

EDIT: Looking over it more, drop the 'uis in two of the FW squads; chances are your Ethereal and Fireblade and going to be hiding out in them (that's what I'd do), so they already boost the Ld. of the squad. Also, against Eldar, Longstrike is not very effective since single high-str low AP shots are nothing to Eldar due to serpent shields and high-toughness models; torrent of fire is really the best way to take them down. Keep the railgun because you never know, or, switch it out for an Ion Cannon as those are useful now. Overall, if you've taken my advice, you should actually have about 500 pts freed up. My recommended additions with those points: 2x 20-man Kroot carnviores w/ sniper rounds a Kroot hound (alternately, you can take 3x squads of 13), ADL w/ comms relay, 2x 6-man Pathfinder teams.

I haven't read anything except the ops post, making an army to specifically take out one other single army is quite possibly the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Deal with Warp Spiders and WW's first. Leave the serpents alone while they kill all your markerlights (especially b/c you don't need the anti flyer)

At that point all you MAY really have to worry about is Wraithguard, which when unsupported definitely do damage, but lets do some math:
Serpent delivery + Wraithguard = a little shy of 300 points.
any one unit in your army is like what 200ish or less?
so focus everything else for a turn.
wraithguard pop out. kill one unit of yours
turn after you murder them exclusively (they have high armor/toughness, but 1 wound is still 1 wound)
bam 210 ish points (if they took flame throwers of doom) gone for your 200 points, and also you were able to focus his important stuff for a turn or two before that, crippling him mostly. you should be able to kill Spiders and at least half walkers/other heavy options.

What does he have left on his next turn?
MAYBE 3-4 wave serpents and some troops. The wave serpents WILL hurt you, but if they do any pens are wrecking them essentially. aka you win. His mobility is crippled severely and he has no options at this point i would Concede as an eldar player i know this.

A player running Wraithguard puts too much stock in them for a 5-6 wound squad no matter their toughness or save. Thats why i personally don't use them.

Key Points: Focus Serpents last, even though they will be doing work, if they have no other support, they will be VERY hard pressed to do much other than maybe take out 1 tank a turn or a squad of markerlights a turn. Focus Highly mobile or easy kill targets (ie tanks with no serpent shields or Walkers) if he tries to deepstrike or outflank (which he will only do once before he learns) just intercept for an auto win button.

Anyway hope that helps.

I have a separate post dedicated to the debate sparked by list tailoring if you think this is list tailoring. Go to that in General Discussion.

edit'd, my other advice is solid. Sorry for interjecting the tailoring discussion.

Tau is really good against eldar, so you don't really need to tailor a list for them. My general advice is aim for the farseer first then warwalkers and fire dragons. Once spiders come down focus on them. Unless you don't have anything to shoot at avoid wave serpents until they use their shield. Once they use their shield, focus fire them and wreck them. Eldar is pretty expensive so they will not be fielding too much and you have better firepower.