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I personally do not like Gretchin. before 5th ed I would always find a way to make an army list that didn't include them.
I've always had piles of them, mostly unpainted.
Since 5th, they seem to find their way into any competitive list I made mostly Kannon fodder.

With now in 6th, things like ADL and hamstringing close combat to where losing number isn't standard practice for orks, it's losing whole units in the engagement.
I find myself switching out my defdreads for Big Gunz (Kannons) more and more. Giving Quad Guns to a crew of Big Gunz and now the unit can use their BS3 and fire 4 shots. They also get a Toughness of 7 making them the toughest Ork Unit even Thrakahas nothing and they even confer this toughness to a Big Mek with a SAG. For 18 points the unit now has 12, for 9 more points your SAG can now use 4 ammo runts in a game and for 87 points (97 if you add a runtherd), I've found this unit very good at aborbing shots. If you take Mad Dok as HQ you could have 12 Grots with a 5+ inv.

It boggles the mind.

I've never heard of being able to attach an IC and use the units ammo runts for himself on top of his own ones. But if you were to have the grots + the mek + the ADL and quad its looking at about 280pts. Sure its very durable to shooting and can put a decent amount out in return, but its very fragile to assault. I wouldn't really bother adding cybork to gretchin either.

Another thing that I am unsure of is having a unit of artillery firing an emplacement like the quad gun. The grots count as crew and can fire the artillery or their sidearms, it doesn't explicitly state they can man emplacements. I've seen gretchin units fire quad guns, but never a big guns battery.

Despite that, gretchin are decent. You can get a bunch of wounds for low price and they can easily used in a situation where their BS3 is useful. I'm not so sure of it being a secret weapon as such, you wont see many armies solely of them but the definitely have their moments.

I remember having a discussion about the runts. The consensus was that if runts are purchased for the unit then attached IC can use them. Forgot all about that lol

Also; "and they even confer this toughness to a Big Mek with a SAG" is incredible. I'd never even thought of that. Too bad I generally would never fire a SAG and some kannons/lobbas at the same target.

 Dakkamite wrote:
I remember having a discussion about the runts. The consensus was that if runts are purchased for the unit then attached IC can use them. Forgot all about that lol

Also; "and they even confer this toughness to a Big Mek with a SAG" is incredible. I'd never even thought of that. Too bad I generally would never fire a SAG and some kannons/lobbas at the same target.

This be the main part why most people dont do it :/ The idea and all is good. but won't work in the length.

IC can join Heavy Support Units, Big Gunz and yes if he is part of the unit he can use their ammo runts. I believe they built them for this very reason.
The Quad Gun without anyone on it fires with a BS2
Also, yes it says it takes 2 Gretchins per Big Gun, but you can take 6 extra crew members (one of which could easily fire the Quadgun). If your didn't take the extra crew, you could say that they can fire only fire 2 guns plus the Quad Gun. But I always play that if there are still 3 grot alive in the unit they could fire all 3 big guns.
Also Big Gun gretchin do not have a sidearm. if the Big Gun itself is destroyed, the gretchins can not fire.

base cost for a unit of 3 Gunz is 60 points. If you Take and ADL (only 1) you could put all 3 units of Big Gunz behind it, plus Lootas if you had them. I would certainly give them all Cybork and not think twice about it.Mind you the Gunz themselves do not have Cybork.

As for the troop unit, I wouldn't call them decent. with the exception of the Quad Gun, they probably will never use their BS3. The only thing the troop unit is good for is a cheap way to take an objective they no one else has taken.

Killa Kanz (which are grots) will use it. Like I said a scret weapon.


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 Dakkamite wrote:
Also; "and they even confer this toughness to a Big Mek with a SAG" is incredible. I'd never even thought of that. Too bad I generally would never fire a SAG and some kannons/lobbas at the same target.

Why would you not? It's 3 shots (if you use the Blast template it will deviate all over the place against an infantry army), fired first to soften the unit, take out the closest model that wouldn't be effected by the SAG anyway. At this point I would never take a SAG without a Big Gunz unit - It's very cheap and the reward is great.

Why reduce the damage output of the SAG but lowering the # of models under the template?

Kannons and the SAG actually have the same target, mostly MEQ though the SAG can also target TEQ, not that you see much of that on foot.

Also the Looba pairs nicely with the SAG for pure wound saturation on a target and while the SAG can easily get more hits (esp with the ammo run) the Lobbaz are the bane of most non-MEQ hiding behind an ADL.

Also, keep in mind that the Big Gunz are pretty dirt cheap so really you're paying for a bunch of Ammo Runts on the SAG, ablative grot wounds, and bonus T7, anything else they manage to kill is just gravy.

I remember that I ended up playing a cities of death game and my opponent thought he'd outsmart me by using minefields to slow me down.
I had decided to bring some grots with me, and I was not disappointed at all. The little guys managed to clear three minefields for me

And that T7 SAG does sound very tasty, though I think cyber-grots, while hilarious, are not quite worth it. You're going to be in cover anyway.

RAI im pretty sure the SAG shouldnt be able to use the runts, but RAW yea its legal because theyre purchased for the unit and the IC rules specifically state hes now a part of the unit, not he moves/shoots/takes wounds as though he was a part of the unit.

I almost always try to get a minimum group of grots as backfield objective holders. 40pts for a scoring unit, why not. Keep them in reserves/well hidden (which isnt hard since theyre so small) and your opponent will either ignore them or waste a ton of resources to get rid of them. Only a handful of units can just look at them under any circumstance and they'll vanish (helldrakes for one, but if hes firing that at grots either he has no other target or hes an idiot)

I love grots. 80 points can tie up a 300 point MC for an entire game, hold an objective, man a flakk cannon, empty mine fields, have a small profile and a sweet model.

I am personally hoping for grot swarms in the next book.

How cool could that be? And think of the conversion/scene possibilities!

Those are called snotlings

I heard the Kannons and the SAG attached could shoot at seperate targets. Something about crew being able to shoot at different targets than the actual Kannon. Any truth to that?

Nah, just looked over it. Everyone has to shoot everything. IC also don't count as crew

Unless Artillery got a special rule where they could fire at their own targets (which they dont) the SAG is still bound to fire at the same target.

Thats where the drawback of the SAG attached to a kannon group shows its fangs. Probably wont want to use the SAG on whatever the kannons are shooting at, but more for "That target over there is way more tasty looking..." rather than "Waste of a shot..."
My SAG usually aims at MEQs/Termies or other 2+/3+ armor things because the army lacks that so badly. Most MEQs that are close enough for a kannon thats not in the middle of the board will be shooting at are like ~5man squads or so out of a drop pod, while the SAG can shoot across the table to get rid of those ratfink lascannon groups.

ivalde wrote:
I heard the Kannons and the SAG attached could shoot at seperate targets. Something about crew being able to shoot at different targets than the actual Kannon. Any truth to that?

That rule ceased to exist when 6th came around. In 5th, you could do that.

 Sleg wrote:
The Quad Gun without anyone on it fires with a BS2

Youre confusing "Weapon Emplacements" with "Emplaced Weapons".
The quad cannot fire if no one is on it, as it does not have the automated fire option.

LargeBlob of Gretchin ( 30 Grots, 3 Runt Herd + 3Grot Prods)
Excellent Tarpit for Monstrous Critters..and the Poison Attacks make it work ..Thou as always with Grots be prepared to lose them in droves...

yeah, but that is 120 points of ultimate tarpitting nasty creatures. If something had 10 attacks and wounded on every attack, with 3 runtherds, you lost 7 grots/turn = 4 turns of tarpitting unless of course they break, not to mention you might just might get lucky on a roll.

Not a very good tar-pit, as they're very likely to run away at the end of the first round of combat.
They lack the Mob rule.
A tar-pit needs to actually stay in place a few turns.

OK, the SAG is very power, but only when it works, If you are lucky you will get a Str 7 attack off. (20% of the time) and the Big Gunz can just shoot at who ever is left (hit half the time, wounding 40% of the tme. You opponent will save 60% of the time. If you really want your Big Gunz to shoot at a separate unit, take another Big Gun and put the Gunz next to a Quad Gun - From experience, never attach a SAG to the unit manning the Quad Gun.

As far as not being as intended, I disagree. I firmly believe they were created for the sole purpose of havng a Big Mek and a SAG attached.
I do think they weren't suppose to get a toughness 7, but that's what happens with a 4th ed codex is being used with 6th ed rules. But again I don't think lootas were ever suppose to move and fire (snap shots).


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Any template used against grot, usually ends in disaster. Which is why I usually don't take them. For 180 points you can take 30 Ork Boyz, instead of 120 points for 30 grots with 3 runtherds. Ork Boyz get mob rules, Waaagh! (even though only Thraka's Waaagh! is useful) and they are better in Melee. Trying to tarpit the unit of 33, means that overwatch weapons, any 6 will remove a grot, once in melee you will probably lose to the number attacks it has. And then you have to roll under a 7 on 2d6 or they will route and take another attack (probably removing the unit from the game). And just think this all just happened on your turn.

6th Ed tarpitting with Gretchins is a waste of time and points


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Quad Guns fire on their own with a BS2 - that is in the rule book.

 Sleg wrote:
Quad Guns fire on their own with a BS2 - that is in the rule book.

Sorry, it isn't.
Look at the Aegis entry page 114:
"Gun Emplacement with quad-gun"

Page 105 is the rules for Gun Emplacements. No auto-fire.

You're thinking of "Emplaced Weapons" on page 96.
This has a Manual/Auto Fire option.

Look at the entry for the Bastion on page 116.
Note the Heavy Bolters are Emplaced Weapons, while the Quad-gun option is a Gun Emplacement.
So the heavy bolters can auto fire with BS2, but the Quad-gun can't.

The Quad-gun cannot autofire.

Why give it a BS? Yes, you are right. But the BS3 that a Grot crew gives it makes it worth having. If a Kannon is in base-to-base with the quad gun, the grot can still fire it, right?

Not sure what you mean, on page 105 it's listed as BS -

Yes, if one of the Grot Krew is in base to base they can fire it (BS3).

 grendel083 wrote:
Not sure what you mean, on page 105 it's listed as BS -

Yes, if one of the Grot Krew is in base to base they can fire it (BS3).

I must have been drunk when I saw that - yep no BS. I'm scratching my head about this.
so the Grot Krew has to be in BTB not the kannon - it changes a strategy, but still worth it.

Definitely worth it, you're still dealing with T7 krew.
And BS3 is seriously accurate for Orks

attach a mega armoured IC to the big gunz, and they are suddenly slow and purposeful, have those T7 grots walk in front of your boyz as a screen, while blasting their kannons. (but beware of close combat, thats a certain way of loosing that megaarmoured warboss to a sweeping advance)

The Artillery unit type specifically forbids them from firing if they moved, so I don't think Slow and Purposeful helps there, although that might be a debate for YMDC. It's kind of a big investment anyway, sacrificing a HQ slot to make one artillery more mobile.

well, with S&P they count as being stationary. (But yeah, its better discussed in YMDC)
anyway a kannon artillery unit screnning your boyz, works alot better than the old kan wall trick, even if they dont have an attached IC

Not looking to change the rules here. I originally wanted to discuss how Grots (Big Gunz) were useful and it seemed that they were this untalked about powerful unit hidden in the Ork Codex.
After Many discussions about Barrage, a slimy thing an Ork Player can do is use Lobbas with a SAG and basically put them in the middle of their deployment zone 5" from the back edge and basically spend the entire game shooting at the opponent, That way they can't be targeted by Large Blast weapons nor do they need LOS to fire theirs at any target on the board.


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If the Big Mek still has their Ammo Runt, they wont need to attach themselves to the Lobba unit so they can fire at 2 different targets. This is perfect for the first and possibly the second turn. For competitive games, I can't see not taking this, with an ADL for added protection