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Dear Sirs and madams,

Does this the Veiltek attached to warrior unit must choose another unit then the unit your warriors have fired upon and therefore never can use nightmare shroud on the same unit as fired upon (assuming you must choose to activate Nightmare Shroud after the attached unit has fired)?

Radathag wrote:
Dear Sirs and madams,

Does this the Veiltek attached to warrior unit must choose another unit then the unit your warriors have fired upon and therefore never can use nightmare shroud on the same unit as fired upon (assuming you must choose to activate Nightmare Shroud after the attached unit has fired)?

Nightmare Shroud is activated during the movement phase.

Lords and Cryptek attached to a unit must shoot at the same unit as the rest of the unit.

nightmare shroud is not activated during the movement phase it is done in the shooting phase instead of shooting. There is some debate as to weather or not you can target a different unit than your squad. We play it as it targets the same unit as your squad since it is done instead of shooting. Look at it like this you can force up to two moral checks on one unit in a single shooting phase. Its not bad for 10 points on a guy that only has a flamer.

I don't know where you found must choose another unit, are you using a translated set of rules?

I just read your other thread, it is probably a translation issue. There is no requirement in the English rules to target a different squad. Work it out with your opponent but like I said we usually just target the same squad.

Going off of your wording, It seems it's done instead of shooting which doesn't mean that it follows the same rules as shooting.

It's the same wording as Run - you can choose to Run instead of shooting.

You can target a unit different to the one your unit shot with Nightmare Shroud, because you are not actually firing a weapon.

Iranna.

tgf wrote:
n
I don't know where you found must choose another unit, are you using a translated set of rules?

I use the English codex/rulebook.

I found this thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Harbingers_of_Despair
It says:
Q: When is the choice whether to activate a Nightmare Shroud made?
A: After the attached unit has fired.

Then I saw the following in the rulebook:
"Choose an unengaged enemey unit within 18" of the Cryptek."

Based on those 2 things I assume:
I select an enemy unit, shoot with warriors. That unit is then engaged by warriors. The rule state to choose an unengaged enemy unit and there have no other option then selecting a different unit?
That's why my reasoning ends up with the question. But as usual my interpatation of the rules is often wrong. And I appreciate your feedback very much and learning to read the codex and rulebook better, cause frankly I'm a noob..

Radathag wrote: I select an enemy unit, shoot with warriors. That unit is then engaged by warriors. The rule state to choose an unengaged enemy unit and there have no other option then selecting a different unit?

'Unengaged' means not engaged in assault in this context (and most every other context). So, it is legal to use Shroud against the unit your Warriors are shooting at.

To the question of whether it's legal to Shroud one unit while the squad shoots at another, I would agree with Iranna. You are forgoing shooting to utilize a non-shooting ability. There is no conflict, much like how a Psyker can target one unit with a Psychic power while his unit shoots at another.

So it is considdered legal to VoD close to an enemy unit, fire your warriors and even if you don't get 25% of his unit down you may force to throw morale check and you have a change they fail? That's kind of interesting.

Does it also mean that the oponent has to throw 2 morale checks in one turn in the event you shoot more then 25%, then morale check because of the Nightmare shroud and if he passes that, he needs to throw morale check again as you would normally do?

Nightmare Shroud forces the Morale Check 'immediately,' while the check from shooting casualties will be at end of phase. So say you shoot the unit and kill over 25%, then you Shroud them. They will immediately take the Morale Check from Shroud. At the end of the shooting phase, they'll take one more Morale Check for having sustained >25% casualties. If they failed the Shroud test first, the second test is failed automatically and the unit will fall back a second time. Otherwise they just roll a second Morale Check.