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2K - Jy2's 50 Shades of Pink Daemons vs Blackmoor's Spydar Footdar (Completed)  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Are the new eldar good enough to beat Chaos?
Yes, thanks to the randomness of daemons.
Draw. Eldar plays denial because they have problems with the Chaos armor.
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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

I was down in Southern California for business and while there, I found time to get 2 games in as well as to meet another fellow dakkalite - Casey aka Brotherekerose here on dakka - who I missed at the Bay Area Open. Anyways, we teamed up (he played Tau, I played Chaos) against a Space Wolf player. Despite giving our opponent a handicap (i.e. an extra 200-pts), we played well enough to eke out a victory.

Then on day 2, I met up with Allan (aka Blackmoor here on dakka) for a game against his new elder (or rather, his old elder). This was only my 2nd game against the new eldar. The first game, against SonsofGrant's seer council elder/dark elder alliance (Part I - 1850 Armored Zombie Apocalypse Chaos vs NEW Seer Council Deldar), didn't go too well for my experimental Chaos Space Marine army. However, while my experience against elder is limited, this will actually be Allan's very first game with the new elder. Thus, it'll be a learning experience for the both of us.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


2000 50 Shades of Pink Daemons vs Blackmoor's Spydar Footdar


2000 50 Shades of Pink Daemons

I made a few changes to my list. First off, it's a pain trying to transport 20 seekers in a carry-on so I opted to leave them out and bring some more easier-to-transport units. Secondly, I still wanted to incorporate my theme of as many armored non-transport vehicles in my army as possible so opted for Chaos Space Marine allies with a heldrake and maulerfiend.


Lord of Change - Lvl 3, 2x Greater Gifts (+1W, It Will Not Die!, 3+) , 1x Lesser Gift (Staff of Change) - Misfortune, Prescience, Flickering Fire

Warlord Trait: Re-roll Daemonic Instability 12"

Herald - Tzeentch, Lvl 3, 1x Exalted Gift (Grimoire), Conjuration - Misfortune, Prescience, Flickering Fire
Herald - Tzeentch, Lvl 3, 1x Exalted Gift (Portaglyph), Conjuration - Forewarning, Prescience, Flickering Fire

Chaos Sorcerer - Lvl 2, Terminator Armour - Iron Arm, Enfeeble

18x Pink Horrors
17x Pink Horrors
10x Pink Horrors
15x Cultists

Heldrake

Maulerfiend
Soulgrinder - Slaanesh, Baleful Torrent
Soulgrinder - Slaanesh, Baleful Torrent
Soulgrinder - Tzeentch, Phlegm



2000 Spydar Footdar (Blackmoor)

Eldrad - Doom, Fortune, Misfortune, Prescience

Warlord Trait: ? (Don't remember)

Avatar

Warlock - Jetbike - Conceal/reveal

8x Harliquins - All Kisses, 2x Fusion Pistols, Shadowseer

3x Guardian Jetbikes - 1x Shurken Cannon
3x Guardian Jetbikes - x Shurken Cannon
10x Guardians - 1x Brightlance
10x Guardians - 1x Brightlance
10x Guardians - 1x Brightlance

8x Warp Spiders - Exarch
10x Warp Spiders - Exarch w/TL-Deathspinner

5x Dark Reapers - Exarch, Starshot, Fast Shot, Night Vision
3x War Walkers - 6x Scatter Lasers

Bastion - Icarus Lascannon


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Mission: Purge the Alien


Deployment: Dawn of War


Initiative: Chaos


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Coming up later - Pre-game Analysis.


This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/06/21 17:36:15



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in us
Daring Dark Eldar Raider Rider





Florida

Based on the lists, this will be an interesting game. I think the mobility of a lot of the Eldar stuff might cause some serious problems for the Daemons, but that armor is going to be a tough nut to crack. Interested to see how the Eldar's paint job looks too.

1850
2000
3000
2000 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

PRE-GAME ANALYSIS:

Chaos:

My first impression of Blackmoor's army is that I'm not too concerned. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty confident that he'll have more problems against my army than I will his. The majority of his AT will be 3 bright lances, 1 lascannon, 1 monstrous creature with a meltagun (or is it a multi-melta?) and some spider-dudes trying to go for rear armor. While I'm pretty sure the maulerfiend won't be a problem for his AT, the grinders and heldrake will prove otherwise. And while his shooting is very respectable, all I need do is to hide the majority of my troops behind LOS-terrain and let him have fun plinking away at my walkers. You can be sure that if my LoC gets 2++, I'm going to ram him straight down my opponent's throat. Honestly, I feel that my list is going to be a bad matchup for my opponent.

I've got multiple targets that I will go after. I will probably go after his warp spiders first. Can't have them jumping around and shooting up my troops. Then I will go after the Avatar. Once he's gone, I can break his troops. Thirdly, I'm going after his war walkers. If his harlequins get to close to my guys, you can be sure I'm going to blow them away. I'm probably going to ignore his Dark Reapers. I really don't see them doing too much.

I think this game will come down to how well footdar can handle my walkers. If he can roll well with his shooting and disable my walkers, he has a chance to win this. Otherwise, I'm pretty confident that I will.


Eldar: (by Blackmoor)

Well, here it is at last

A few quick notes:

I was busy the few days before my game with JY2 so I just threw a bunch of my eldar models together and made a list at work before coming down. When I got to the store I thought that we were going to play BAO missions so I made my list for 1750, but JY2 wanted to play 2000 points. The funny thing is that I looked at my sheet and I only built a 1500 point list so I failed on several fronts. I quickly swapped out my Jetseer for Eldrad, added 10 unpainted warp spiders, and added the harlequins.

My list is basically the foot elder list that I ran at Comikazi Con that I got 2nd place with last fall. I always liked warp spiders and dark reapers and this book just made them better.

I also avoided reading any of JY2 batreps because I wanted to be surprised by what he brought. I am glad that I always took bright lances on my guardians because I was not expecting a lot of soul grinders.

This was really a test game for me since I have not really played my foot eldar much in 6th edition, and I wanted to see what the new codex can do. I ended up making a lot of mistakes that you will see. Not giving any spoilers away but:
I never used Eldrad’s warlord power of +1 cover save (and I could have used it).
I planned on shooting my war walkers and then running back using battle focus, and then I was going to bubble wrapping them with guardians. When it came time to shoot them I forgot to run them and left them out in the open.
I was still stuck in 5th edition with my harlequins and I thought I could assault with them after running. I completely forgot that they can’t do that anymore.
I forgot about warp spiders getting +1 strength against models that are I3 or less. I did not put the pieces together with the soul grinders since they are vehicles.
I also made a lot of stupid mistakes like thinking that the soul grinders battlecannon shot only had a 24” range as seen above on turn #1. .

I will say that JY2 and I both got lucky on the psychic powers that we rolled. I got all of the ones that I wanted, and JY2 got his. I was hoping that he would not get the +4 inv save, but on the very first roll he hit it.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


Deployment:

Spoiler:
It is night.


Chaos deployment, with only the heldrake in reserves. The Tzeentch grinder is the one in the middle (the painted one).


Eldar deployment to the left (from my perspective). Eldrad with reapers in the bastion.


And to the right. Harlequins in the middle. Everything is deployed. No reserves.


Overview of our deployment.

Eldar tries to steal but fails.




-------------------------------------------------------------------


Chaos 1

Spoiler:

The forces of Chaos advance. I pimp out my LoC with "the Works" (that's Prescience and a re-rollable 2++). He swoops.


The rest of my army advances. Sorcerer casts Iron Arm on himself. I am out of range of both Enfeeble and Misfortune.


Another perspective of my movement.


My Warlord shoots at and kills 3 spiders.


On the right, my grinder spits (phlegms) at his spiders out in the open. Fortunately for my opponent, he's got Shrouding due to Night-fight. I kill 4.


Another 2 spiders die to Warpflame.

The slaanesh grinders run and horrors run.

Not bad. 9 spiders dead already. With my limited shooting, I'll take it.




Eldar 1

Spoiler:
Eldrad casts his power, including Fortune on the Avatar and Guide on his own unit.


Spiders boldy goes where no sane spiders have gone before....into the jaws of death.


Eldar movement. The avatar seems slightly confused as to what he should do.


Jetbikes advance. Spiders and harlequins actually move back. I believe he is trying to get his spiders out of LOS of my Tzeentch grinder with phlegm.


His right guardians move even further to the right.


In trying to kill my Grimoire, my opponent focuses almost his entire army at my Herald's unit (or the ones who could see), killing off 9 horrors and putting 1W on the Herald himself.


He also shoots down 3 horrors from the Portaglyph Herald's unit.

That is all the damage his shooting could muster.


Bikers then do their assault moves.


As do his warp spiders.

If you'll notice, he's screened out his warwalkers, harlequins and jetbikes from any potential assault.




Chaos 2

Spoiler:
This turn, again I give my Warlord "the Works". I also Misfortune the Avatar. My Chaos Sorcerer Perils while casting Iron Arm but it goes off anyways.


I am going to own the Avatar. BTW, the maulerfiend is Doomed but that is fine. I don't plan to assault the Avatar with him.


The rest of the army moves. Grimoire Herald joins the big unit of horrors with the Portaglyph Herald.


Chaos shooting brings his Avatar down to 1W remaining, immobilizes 1 of the warwalkers and kills 1 spider and 1 jetbike.


My Warlord then assaults the Avatar.


God of What? He can't do anything to my invincible Warlord. I then take out the Avatar for First Blood.

VP - Chaos: 1, Eldar: 0

Fortunately for my opponent, my maulerfiend fails to charge the bastion even with Fleet (about 7.5" away).

So I've killed his Avatar, severely weakened his warp spiders and am at his doorsteps with an unkillable LoC. It'll be interesting to see how my opponent comes back from this.




Eldar 2

Spoiler:

Warp spiders jump behind my Slaanesh grinder.


The rest of his army moves.


Eldar movement on the right.


Spiders shoot and take off 2 Hull Points from my grinder and destroy his torrent flamer in the process. Both of us was not aware at the time, but the spider shooting should be resolved at S7 because of Monofilament.


I believe it is the combination of his war walkers and warp spiders that destroys my maulerfiend.

VP - Chaos: 1, Eldar: 1


Eldar shooting grounds my LoC but fails to penetrate his re-rollable 2++.


I believe it is a bright lance that finishes off my left Slaanesh grinder.

VP - Chaos: 1, Eldar: 2


A bright lance pens my right Slaanesh grinder and shakes it.


Finally, the dark reapers kill 6 horrors.


Warp spiders then jump behind the building.

So far, Blackmoor has been rolling really well with his jetbike assault moves. He's been getting 9" and up on average.


Spiders jump back behind the screen.


Harlequins assault. Between my 2++ invuln and his Fortuned harlequin saves, combat is a draw with 0 unsaved wounds each.

Not a bad turn for my elder opponent, killing 2 walkers and some more troops. Is this the break that my opponent needs?




Chaos 3

Spoiler:
At this point, despite just losing 2 walkers, I am feeling very confident. Not just confident, but I was actually feeling kind of cocky. I had my invincible LoC in his lines who will probably run through his entire army. I've got him on the ropes and in trouble. So I decided it would be more challenging if I played a little more loosely, which would be a little more aggressively than I probably should....which would be a lot more stupid than I normally would.


My heldrake comes in. Rather than be conservative and move him behind the central LOS-blocking terrain for some cover (4+), I sic him directly at my opponent. I thought to myself, if he intercepts and shoots him down, then he shoots him down. However, if not, then I have a lot of targets all bunched up ripe for some BBQ

But just in case, I use the Grimoire on him.....

....and fail.

I also deepstrike my unit of 10-horrors aggressively into his deployment zone. I am planning to trade them for his unit of guardians.


Grinder goes after the spiders. Little did I know that spiders have Hit-&-Run.


But the stupidest move I make in this game is to advance my Pinkstar. I got greedy, risking 3 VP's just to try to get 1 VP.


But wait, the stupidy doesn't stop just there. I am feeling "generous" and drop off my Portaglyph for some more VP opportunities for my opponent.

Here is my train of thought - yes, I am risking a lot of VP's by playing so aggressively. However, I am also increasing my chances to table my opponent if everything goes as planned.


Bam!!! A Fast Shot dark reaper exarch blows my helturkey to smithereens!

VP - Chaos: 1, Eldar: 3

My Portaglyph fails to generate troops.

Newly arrived horrors shoot at his guardians....and he denies on a !


I then fired the full fury of my pinkstar - both Heralds and the horrors - at the warwalkers, fully expecting to wipe them out.

Instead, I only kill the immobilized walker.

What the f*ck just happened?!?


At least I finish off 1 unit of spyders (from my Tzeentch soulgrinder, I believe).

VP - Chaos: 2, Eldar: 3


My Slaanest grinder assaults and finishes off his other spiders.

VP - Chaos: 3, Eldar: 3


With only Forewarning on my Warlord, the harlequins are able to get 1W through. On the other hand, I kill off 3 harlequins.


They would then pass morale and Hit-&-Run out of combat....leaving my Warlord on the ground and with only a 4++ save.

After this turn, I just may be in trouble.




Eldar 3

Spoiler:

Jetbikes with warlock go after my horrors.


Harlequins position themselves to either assault my Pinkstar (Heralds + horrors) or my Warlord. BTW, they are Fortuned.


Eldar go after multiple threats.


Shooting kills all but 1 horror, including both of my Heralds.

Wow, what a nice gamble on my part.

VP - Chaos: 3, Eldar: 5


He also puts another 1W on my Warlord and shoots down 3 horrors.


Guardians then assault.


Jetbikes....do their assault move (or did they turbo-boost, can't remember)?


My opponent makes 2 mistakes here.

First, he runs his harlequins, thinking they can assault still because of fleet.

Then he assaults my Warlord with his guardians, hoping to pin him down.

I kill 4 for his trouble, thank you very much.


And sweep them afterwards.

VP - Chaos: 4, Eldar: 5


In this combat, guardians win by 4 after Daemonic Instability.

It is an unusual Turn 4, but I would say my opponent still comes out ahead, especially now that I've lost the Grimoire.




Chaos 4

Spoiler:

Overview of the top of Turn 4.

My, how the tides have changed. At first, I thought I was in a dominant position. Now I have to play more defensively. My opponent is very likely to get 2 more VP's - the horrors and the Portaglyph (I am assuming it gives up a VP because when I am not sure, I usually go with the intepretation gives me the least advantage). However, I still have a reasonable chance to come back with 2 grinders and my Warlord.


My Warlord (with just Prescience and Doom on him) goes after the warwalkers, who really should have died to all my S6 shooting.

Grinder gets ready to assault the guardians.


The other grinder and cultists go after the harlequins, who are both Fortuned and Misfortuned.


Portaglyph pops out 5 horrors....


....who then shoot at and only kill 1 biker.

That is a mistake on my part. Looking back now, I should have focus-fired and tried to kill his harlequins instead.


Grinder and cultists shoot at the harlequins. I fail to wipe them out as 2 survives.


The grinder then assaults.


My Warlord assault the walkers. I believe he denies my attempt at Flickering Fire. Grinder assaults the guardians.


With 5 attacks, the grinder fails to even hit! Harlequins Hit-&-Run out of combat.

My Warlord turns the walkers into scrap metal.

VP - Chaos: 5, Eldar: 5


Combat here is tied with 2 kills each. My grinder remains stuck in combat.




Eldar 4

Spoiler:

Jetbikes go after my horrors.


Harlequins go on a suicide run, though with Presience and Fortune on them and Doom and Misfortune on my Warlord, who knows.


Lone jetbike goes after the horrors.


Eldar shoots down the Portaglyph.

VP - Chaos: 5, Eldar: 6


And 3 horrors.


He then assaults.


But units of jetbikes do.


As do the harlequins, but not before Eldar shooting takes off another 2W from my Warlord.


He wipes out the horrors.

VP - Chaos: 5, Eldar: 7


Daemonic Instability kills off the horrors here.

VP - Chaos: 5, Eldar: 8


He kills a 3rd horror unit here. My grinder is so pitiful in combat that he only kills 1 space elf in return.

VP - Chaos: 5, Eldar: 9


But most surprising of all....I challenge his shadowseer and we both kill each other off! Yes, he wounds me twice and I fail both saves because of Misfortune!!! And to add insult to injury, I did 2W and he fails both. Had I not issued a challenge, I would have killed off the unit. Now instead, 1 harlequin survives.

Game is over. I can't come back now.

VP - Chaos: 5, Eldar: 10




Chaos 5

Spoiler:

Grinder goes after the bastion.


Cultists the jetbikes.


The warlock survives my shooting, thus denying me the VP.


The grinder fires his phlegm at the building and kill 2 reapers as well as put 1W on the lascannon.


I fail my charge attempt.


Grinder sweeps the guardians in combat.

VP - Chaos: 6, Eldar: 10


The other grinder makes it into assault.


And tears down the building, killing the reapers in the process.

VP - Chaos: 7, Eldar: 10

Too bad the bastion itself isn't worth any VP's.




Eldar 5

Spoiler:

From hereonafter, Blackmoor plays the keep-away game.


The only thing of note is the Eldrad assaults my grinder.


-------------------------------------------------------------------


The game would actually go on to Turn 7. After multiple wounds, I would fail to kill the Fortuned Eldrad. Eldrad would eventually end up killing my grinder on Turn 7.

VP - Chaos: 7, Eldar: 11


By Turn 7, my CSM Sorcerer would make it to my opponent's deployment zone for Linebreaker. Blackmoor, on the other hand, already got Linebreaker with his jetbikes a long time ago.

So I get First Blood (the Avatar) and Linebreaker (CSM Sorcerer). My opponent gets Warlord and Linebreaker (jetbikes).


Eldar wins 13-9. Oh well, I deserve the loss for playing so poorly. Never under-estimate a good player. Lesson learned.




Minor Victory by Spydar Footdar!!!






-------------------------------------------------------------------


POST-GAME ANALYSIS:

Spoiler:
Chaos:

If I could sum up my loss in 1 word, it would be this - hubris.

Yes, I loss because I became arrogant (though I did not exhibit this externally and attitude-wise). I thought I had this game "in the bag" early. I counted my chicken before they hatched. My head was swelling with the perceived death of one of my archrival armies, the eldar, that I began to play sloppy. I began to take unnecessary risks for small gain, like exposing my Heralds or dropping off my Portaglyph as well as brazenly deploying my heldrake right in front of my opponent's face and without cover. These moves, coupled with my inability to kill his units in the late game (taking 3 turns to kill his guardians with my grinder, inability to shoot down 1-2 man jetbike units, harlequins or his warwalkers, etc.), sealed my fate. This is not to discount Blackmoor's play. He did what he had to do, had some great offense in the end and fought back for the win. However, I could have denied him 4-5 easy VP's just by playing a little more conservatively. Blackmoor said he made some mistakes. That is true. However, I'd argue that the mistakes I made were even greater.

1. Although my heldrake could have still been intercepted, if I had deployed it a little more conservatively (i.e. behind the central LOS-blocking terrain for a 4+ cover), it might have lived to at least do some damage.

2. I exposed my horrors and heralds to try to kill his warwalkers. That is risking 3 VP's for only 1 VP. Not only did my shooting fail big time, but I ended up losing both of my Heralds, including the Grimoire, in the process.

3. Dropping my horrors in his deployment zone was at best exchanging VP's. At worst, I don't kill anything and lose the unit, which was what happened. Not only that, but the unit of horrors kept his unit of guardians from being swept by my soulgrinder for a turns.

4. Dropped off the Portaglyph. What did that do for me? Nothing besides giving my opponent 2 free VP's.

5. Instead of trying to assault the bastion with my maulerfiend (who railed a re-rollable 8" charge), I should have just charged the guardians in front of it (about 4" away), thus taking out an offensive unit as well as his screening unit.

In this game, someone mentioned that I wasn't playing the mission but to kill stuff. That is entirely true. I was playing pure offense without consideration for defense. What I should have been doing was playing offense as well as the denial game as well. Against a seasoned veteran like Blackmoor, you just can't do that....but that is precisely what I did. Great comeback, Blackmoor, and great game, even though I lost. I think every player needs a game like this once in a while to give them a little perspective.


Eldar: (by Blackmoor)

Well that was a learning experience.

It was a really close game and all I had left was:
Eldrad (warlord)
1 Jetbike
1 Warlock on a Jetbike
1 Harliquin
10 Guardians.

If he could have killed off some of the solo models he would have been in buisiness.

I really screwed up my harlequins assaulting the LoC. I finally had him on the ground without the grimore, and I ended up running and then not being able to assault. I thought at that point I had lost and it was just going to be an exercise in dice rolling until the LoC killed off my whole army. Then the Shadowseer came up huge and saved the game for me.

I am working on an army just like JY2’s but instead of Soulgrinders it has Demon Princes. I was surprised by all of the shooting that they can muster when they are large squads with a couple of heralds. The good news was that you kill a couple of Heralds and you kill off a few horrors and their shooting is diminished a lot. Also if you are able to get them into assault they go down hard with instability.

Going forward I am going with the Scatter Lasers/Starcannons on my War Walkers to take care of pesky things like Riptides and Broadsides.

I also like the mobility of the Spiders, but they are only T3 marines so they will die if you are not careful.

I am torn on the guardians. The BS 4 makes the heavy weapon much better, but the 12” range of their Shuriken Catapult is an issue.

The warlock’s viability is still in question. I rolled the worst power (quicken/restrain) and Conceal/Reveal was not much help.

Everything else worked as intended. Multiple flyers will still be an issue, but that is to be expected.




This message was edited 14 times. Last update was at 2013/06/22 17:47:10



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
Made in us
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






War walkers DR and harlequins are just so expensive. I think had he brought some wave serpents he would run over most of the demon units since they have such great mobility and durability and a 60" range gun. Interested to see how he does though, eldrad got some gross powers for sure.

   
Made in us
Horrific Howling Banshee




Eldrad's power list is nasty there. Especially since Doom now works on AV Armour Pen rolls. Warp Spiders Monofilament is also getting the strength bonus against even the Walkers, being I3. They might be the key to this game. Get Monofilament hits on Rear Armour and they can do some damage.

Guess we'll see how the Warp Jump rolls went!

 
   
Made in us
Perfected Haemonculi Living Sculpture






Honestly he needs to assault with the WS every turn IMO so that he pins down a unit and stops its shooting while keeping them safe so he can HnR on the demon turn then rinse and repeat. His sp[iders won't last long against those flammers and the horrors shooting otherwise. I think blackmoors list needs a wraith knight or two and a few wave serpents for his guardians. If he dropped the WW, reapers, harlies and bright lances then he frees up alot of points. I also think two stock farseers are better then eldrad and the avatar. The avatar wants to hang back with those guardians so he isn't really posing much of a threat to shooty armies meanwhile those two hqs are eating up 20% + of his points.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





San Jose, CA

 tanuvein wrote:
Based on the lists, this will be an interesting game. I think the mobility of a lot of the Eldar stuff might cause some serious problems for the Daemons, but that armor is going to be a tough nut to crack. Interested to see how the Eldar's paint job looks too.

I'm not too concerned about elder mobility. With my LoC, heldrake and fast walkers - not to mention my shooting - I actually have the mobility to catch his fast guys or to shoot them down. They won't be able to run away. Daemons are quite fast themselves!

Armor is definitely a concern for elder, though with Prescience and Guide, his shooting can be quite accurate.


 Red Corsair wrote:
War walkers DR and harlequins are just so expensive. I think had he brought some wave serpents he would run over most of the demon units since they have such great mobility and durability and a 60" range gun. Interested to see how he does though, eldrad got some gross powers for sure.

From what I hear, while expensive, Warwalkers are still a very good unit. Wave serpents definitely would've probably given my army more problems, though from what I know, Blackmoor is primarily a footdar player. I'm not sure if he ever ran WS (maybe in his early days?).

Yeah, we both got some really good powers.


Quark wrote:
Eldrad's power list is nasty there. Especially since Doom now works on AV Armour Pen rolls. Warp Spiders Monofilament is also getting the strength bonus against even the Walkers, being I3. They might be the key to this game. Get Monofilament hits on Rear Armour and they can do some damage.

Guess we'll see how the Warp Jump rolls went!

Doom is actually scary to vehicles now. That was how my last opponent, Grant's seer council, killed my walkers so easily. So now he gets re-rolls to hit and re-rolls on armour penetration....nasty!


 Red Corsair wrote:
Honestly he needs to assault with the WS every turn IMO so that he pins down a unit and stops its shooting while keeping them safe so he can HnR on the demon turn then rinse and repeat. His sp[iders won't last long against those flammers and the horrors shooting otherwise. I think blackmoors list needs a wraith knight or two and a few wave serpents for his guardians. If he dropped the WW, reapers, harlies and bright lances then he frees up alot of points. I also think two stock farseers are better then eldrad and the avatar. The avatar wants to hang back with those guardians so he isn't really posing much of a threat to shooty armies meanwhile those two hqs are eating up 20% + of his points.

To be fair, this is only Blackmoor's very first game with the new dex. I'm sure he just wanted to see how his old list will transition into the new army and then make adjustments from there.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/20 02:26:03



6th Edition Tournaments: Golden Throne GT 2012 - 1st .....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids
ATC 2013 - Team Fluffy Bunnies - 1st .....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
7th Edition: 2015-16 ITC Best Grey Knights, 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids
Jy2's 6th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links.....Jy2's 7th Edition Battle Report Thread - Links
 
   
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This is an example of an eldar list that I think would give most people extreme difficulty. I first saw GJB new cost and was utterly jaw dropped but then realized that too many things like torrent flamers and vector strikes or even barrage weapons just shatter them. I think the Wave Serpent is going to play a huge roll for the new eldar. It;s the first book with vehicles that I think are viable again (excluding fliers and necrons).

115 Farseer, JB
120 Farseer, JB singing spear
235 (10) Guardians WaveSerpant, TL SC, ShC, Holo F
235 (10) Guardians WaveSerpant, TL SC, ShC, Holo F
235 (10) Guardians WaveSerpant, TL SC, ShC, Holo F
235 (10) Guardians WaveSerpant, TL SC, ShC, Holo F
171 (9) Warp Spiders
171 (9) Warp Spiders
240 Wraith Knight
240 Wraith Knight

1997


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 jy2 wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
War walkers DR and harlequins are just so expensive. I think had he brought some wave serpents he would run over most of the demon units since they have such great mobility and durability and a 60" range gun. Interested to see how he does though, eldrad got some gross powers for sure.

From what I hear, while expensive, Warwalkers are still a very good unit. Wave serpents definitely would've probably given my army more problems, though from what I know, Blackmoor is primarily a footdar player. I'm not sure if he ever ran WS (maybe in his early days?).

Yeah, we both got some really good powers.


Quark wrote:
Eldrad's power list is nasty there. Especially since Doom now works on AV Armour Pen rolls. Warp Spiders Monofilament is also getting the strength bonus against even the Walkers, being I3. They might be the key to this game. Get Monofilament hits on Rear Armour and they can do some damage.

Guess we'll see how the Warp Jump rolls went!

Doom is actually scary to vehicles now. That was how my last opponent, Grant's seer council, killed my walkers so easily. So now he gets re-rolls to hit and re-rolls on armour penetration....nasty!


 Red Corsair wrote:
Honestly he needs to assault with the WS every turn IMO so that he pins down a unit and stops its shooting while keeping them safe so he can HnR on the demon turn then rinse and repeat. His sp[iders won't last long against those flammers and the horrors shooting otherwise. I think blackmoors list needs a wraith knight or two and a few wave serpents for his guardians. If he dropped the WW, reapers, harlies and bright lances then he frees up alot of points. I also think two stock farseers are better then eldrad and the avatar. The avatar wants to hang back with those guardians so he isn't really posing much of a threat to shooty armies meanwhile those two hqs are eating up 20% + of his points.

To be fair, this is only Blackmoor's very first game with the new dex. I'm sure he just wanted to see how his old list will transition into the new army and then make adjustments from there.



Oh I should premise my posts as not being focused toward blackmoor but more at the eldar community, yes he was primarily a footdar player and I definitely would be playing my old units as well like most eldar players. I like footdar but am just6 playing devils advocate a bit

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/06/19 18:48:27


   
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Can't wait until this report starts.

   
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lol harlequins haven't changed and yet they got better, warwalkers only have a 10 pt increase for each model since who doesn't use scatter lasers along with a reliable save!, Dark reapers got a point decrease I thought O.o.

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Actually, I've had a question as I read your last few battle reports - do you post them after the battle, or is the initial post before hand?

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Imo it comes down to the heldrake... Filthy awesome birdie.

Also enfeeble is gonna be handy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/21 06:19:55


 
   
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GTKA666 wrote:
lol harlequins haven't changed and yet they got better, warwalkers only have a 10 pt increase for each model since who doesn't use scatter lasers along with a reliable save!, Dark reapers got a point decrease I thought O.o.


I guess you don't mind a 10 point per model increase but I do. That's 210 for a unit that was 180, an increase of 16.67%. The abilities are a wash since they gained a 5++ in an edition where 5++ or better covers saves are stupid easy to get and yet they became opened topped making a 2HP walker all the more fragile. Battle focus is nice your definitely not getting it on the cheap at 10 points per model and lets be honest without reliable;e fortune they NEEDED something or would never be viable.

Dark reapers were insanely over priced before and are still over priced now. In an army where almost everything excels at horde control 30 points a piece for a T3 marine is awful. Buying krack missiles would be nice but it only inflates the issue since now 3 with crack missiles cost 114 while long fangs get 5 dudes with 4 crack rockets for 115 and long fangs are not very useful anymore so why would making reapers overpriced longfangs ever be a good idea?

Harlequins did change, veil is a psychic test which makes it unreliable but they still have potential its just the fact that better options exist point for point.

I want to like WW but when a wave serpent can average 6.23 S6 hits and and 4.02 S7 hits that ignore cover for 145 and have a 4++ and av12 AND transports 12 compared to 2 WW which average 10.72 S6 hits at 140 which takes up a HS slot I just can't see why I wouldn't just purchase more WS to keep my units safe in a hell drake filled meta. The Wave serpent literally outperforms every other vehicle in that book point for point.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/20 01:30:39


   
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Sydney, Australia

 Red Corsair wrote:
I guess you don't mind a 10 point per model increase but I do. That's 210 for a unit that was 180, an increase of 16.67%. The abilities are a wash since they gained a 5++ in an edition where 5++ or better covers saves are stupid easy to get and yet they became opened topped making a 2HP walker all the more fragile. Battle focus is nice your definitely not getting it on the cheap at 10 points per model and lets be honest without reliable;e fortune they NEEDED something or would never be viable.


I would pay 10 points for battle focus, war walkers are still one of the best heavy support slots IMO and can bring the lance options that waveserpents can't.


 Red Corsair wrote:
Dark reapers were insanely over priced before and are still over priced now. In an army where almost everything excels at horde control 30 points a piece for a T3 marine is awful. Buying krack missiles would be nice but it only inflates the issue since now 3 with crack missiles cost 114 while long fangs get 5 dudes with 4 crack rockets for 115 and long fangs are not very useful anymore so why would making reapers overpriced longfangs ever be a good idea?


Dark reaper missile launchers ignore jink which good against bikes and skimmers, and have some mean ap3 for good anti MEQ. Their damage output is higher then longfangs and they have more options. Just expect them to be there number one target, i would be killing them as fast as i could if i faced them. Scary to face but super fragile, they should be able to get one round of shooting every game since they are slow and purposeful but more then that might be difficult. Would that justify the really high points cost...i don't know. Need more test games to see if i can keep them alive.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I want to like WW but when a wave serpent can average 6.23 S6 hits and and 4.02 S7 hits that ignore cover for 145 and have a 4++ and av12 AND transports 12 compared to 2 WW which average 10.72 S6 hits at 140 which takes up a HS slot I just can't see why I wouldn't just purchase more WS to keep my units safe in a hell drake filled meta. The Wave serpent literally outperforms every other vehicle in that book point for point.


The waveserpent outperforms every other vehicle in the game point for point IMO, it's so good. Doesn't mean the warwalkers are bad but i can see your point. Why bother when there are other things in the book that do it's job better. I still like warwalkers and they have performed strong so far.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/06/20 03:36:41


 
   
Made in us
Nurgle Predator Driver with an Infestation





MI

I predict a crushing victory for Chaos.. You have good answers to all of his threats. And rolled up Misfortune twice, plus Forewarning to boot!

I'm not a huge fan of the Chaos allies you took, but you're going for a theme, so hey.

I still would've found the points from a couple spare Horrors/Cultists to give your Sorcerer that ML3. I would've taken all 3 rolls on Telepathy as all of the spells are good against Eldar (w/ Avatar) and you would have had a good shot at rolling up a powerhouse WC2 spell. Who cares about Iron Arm on a 2w Sorcerer in a mixed toughness unit? Hallucination/Invisi/Terrify are gamechangers here.

On a side note, I predict the Shadowseer will blow himself up on a perils, rendering the unit utterly worthless. ^_^

Looks like a fun match either way. I'm addicted to your reports.. Can't wait for the read!

EDIT: Anybody who thinks Warwalkers aren't one of the top units in the codex is crazy. 10pts is worth bs4, alone.. Easily. Plus battlefocus, which is sooo good. Plus a 5+ if the get a bad BF run and are caught flat-footed. Seriously.

On the topic of good Eldar units.. Spiders, Serpents w/ min Avengers, Spiders, WarWalkers, Spiders, JetSeers, GJB, Wraithknights, Firedragons.. Those are the units you'll be seeing again and again, so get used to them.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/06/20 04:03:57


//11thCompanyGT '13, 40k Singles :: [5-2], Bracket Champion ||
//MichiganGT '13, 40k Singles :: [5-1], 4th Place, Best Xenos ||
//Adepticon '13, 40k Finals :: [6-2], 10th Place ||
//BAO '13, 40k Singles :: [5-2], 18th Place ||

[hippos eat people for fun and games] 
   
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Australia

I vote Chaos too. The real strength of New Eldar is the pseudo rend and battlefocus. Looking at the two lists, pseudo rend is pointless (since all saves are invulns) and you're not going to get much mileage out of the run-shoot combo.

I think if the war walkers had scatter laser and lance, it would've been a lot tougher for you though. Also if there'd been a few wave serpents.

Does Eldrad HAVE to be the warlord? Personally, I'd have made the Avatar the warlord, because I suspect you're probably going to be trying to kill Eldrad anyway, so no sense in giving a warlord point.

2000 pts

Compel wrote:
Because in a universe where the basic weapon is a rocket propelled grenade machine gun, with gigantic battletanks, 5 kilometer long spaceships, huge robots and power armoured supersoldiers, the most powerful guy you want to field on a battlefield is a bloke in a pointy hat carrying a stick. 
   
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I see the Eldar winning easely, Warpspiders can take on walkers easely by shooting them i the ass or just glancing them to smithereens, every time one gets doomed it will die.

The biggest issue might be the 2++ LOC who kill come and screw the avatar over.

I think you will loose the turn you grimoire fails, and it will happen...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/20 05:28:30


You have ruled this galaxy for ten thousand years
Yet have little of account to show for your efforts
Order. Unity. Obedience.
We taught the galaxy these things

And we shall do so again.

4500 pts


 
   
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 hippesthippo wrote:


EDIT: Anybody who thinks Warwalkers aren't one of the top units in the codex is crazy. 10pts is worth bs4, alone.. Easily. Plus battlefocus, which is sooo good. Plus a 5+ if the get a bad BF run and are caught flat-footed. Seriously.

On the topic of good Eldar units.. Spiders, Serpents w/ min Avengers, Spiders, WarWalkers, Spiders, JetSeers, GJB, Wraithknights, Firedragons.. Those are the units you'll be seeing again and again, so get used to them.


Well I am certainly not crazy and its not that WW are bad but that they were made of glass in 5th and are made of recycled glass in 6th due to HP's. Sorry but for 210 points they are competing with the WK which is just as fast, 10X more durable and good at both AT and counter assault. In smaller point games they compete with cheaper artillery and fire prisms/NS while at any point level the wave serpent puts out similar firepower while protecting scoring units which the eldar really need to do. Laser lock and the serpent shield seriously pushed the WS WAY passed them in this book.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/06/20 06:27:03


   
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 Red Corsair wrote:
GTKA666 wrote:
lol harlequins haven't changed and yet they got better, warwalkers only have a 10 pt increase for each model since who doesn't use scatter lasers along with a reliable save!, Dark reapers got a point decrease I thought O.o.


I guess you don't mind a 10 point per model increase but I do. That's 210 for a unit that was 180, an increase of 16.67%. The abilities are a wash since they gained a 5++ in an edition where 5++ or better covers saves are stupid easy to get and yet they became opened topped making a 2HP walker all the more fragile. Battle focus is nice your definitely not getting it on the cheap at 10 points per model and lets be honest without reliable;e fortune they NEEDED something or would never be viable.

Dark reapers were insanely over priced before and are still over priced now. In an army where almost everything excels at horde control 30 points a piece for a T3 marine is awful. Buying krack missiles would be nice but it only inflates the issue since now 3 with crack missiles cost 114 while long fangs get 5 dudes with 4 crack rockets for 115 and long fangs are not very useful anymore so why would making reapers overpriced longfangs ever be a good idea?

Harlequins did change, veil is a psychic test which makes it unreliable but they still have potential its just the fact that better options exist point for point.

I want to like WW but when a wave serpent can average 6.23 S6 hits and and 4.02 S7 hits that ignore cover for 145 and have a 4++ and av12 AND transports 12 compared to 2 WW which average 10.72 S6 hits at 140 which takes up a HS slot I just can't see why I wouldn't just purchase more WS to keep my units safe in a hell drake filled meta. The Wave serpent literally outperforms every other vehicle in that book point for point.


too much math and not much seeing for yourself. So harlies have to cast veil on ld 9....who cares? We have always had to use our heads in preparation that something goes wrong or to take into account everything that can attack and whatnot. That is how harlies haven't changed.

When you do the math on WW you might want to take into account that the WW just might have a farseer nearby to guide them. I agree with you that WW should NOT be a HS slot, but what can ya do? Giving the WW a reliable save though is tremendous in the fact that now my opponent wont be able to knock em down on turn 2 since everyone dislikes my S6 spam lists . You also forgot that they have battle focus as well which can mean a lot of annoying poop in and out.

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This Serpent love is a little overblown, IMO. It can still get one shot killed right? And when it uses its shield offensively it loses its best defense. Still armor 12.

Think about it. A Vendetta is armor 12 with 3 twin-linked lascannons and I don't see a lot of Vendettas in hover mode around the battlefield.
   
Made in nl
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A 5++ save on the War Walkers is almost useless. Because of AV10 and open-top almost every shot is a danger, the 5++ isn't going to save them more than a 5+ cover did the previous codex.

Even with Fortune. They are very very fragile unless you can dance in and out of LoS with Battle Focus.

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Central Pennsylvania

 Shandara wrote:
A 5++ save on the War Walkers is almost useless. Because of AV10 and open-top almost every shot is a danger, the 5++ isn't going to save them more than a 5+ cover did the previous codex.

Even with Fortune. They are very very fragile unless you can dance in and out of LoS with Battle Focus.


Exactly. Speed and mobility is the Eldar defense. Relying on that 5++ is going to cause failure, but having it there in case the LoS doesn't work as well as intended...it is a nice backup.

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7,100 pts Yme-Loc Eldar(Apoc Included) / 5,700 pts (Non-Apoc)
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 Valek wrote:
I see the Eldar winning easely, Warpspiders can take on walkers easely by shooting them i the ass or just glancing them to smithereens, every time one gets doomed it will die.

The biggest issue might be the 2++ LOC who kill come and screw the avatar over.

I think you will loose the turn you grimoire fails, and it will happen...


+1
   
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Fort Campbell

DarthDiggler wrote:
This Serpent love is a little overblown, IMO. It can still get one shot killed right? And when it uses its shield offensively it loses its best defense. Still armor 12.

Think about it. A Vendetta is armor 12 with 3 twin-linked lascannons and I don't see a lot of Vendettas in hover mode around the battlefield.


It's very hard to 1 shot kill it, since it gets a 2+ save against penetrating hits. So you've gotta roll a pen, then he's got to roll a 1, then you've got to roll a 6. Odd's aren't all that high.

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 djones520 wrote:
DarthDiggler wrote:
This Serpent love is a little overblown, IMO. It can still get one shot killed right? And when it uses its shield offensively it loses its best defense. Still armor 12.

Think about it. A Vendetta is armor 12 with 3 twin-linked lascannons and I don't see a lot of Vendettas in hover mode around the battlefield.


It's very hard to 1 shot kill it, since it gets a 2+ save against penetrating hits. So you've gotta roll a pen, then he's got to roll a 1, then you've got to roll a 6. Odd's aren't all that high.


Not always true. Most people are proclaiming the benefit of shooting the shield for d6+1 shots. That's mentioned a lot. If you shoot the shield, then you don't get the 2+ save vs. penetrating hits. If you don't shoot the shield, then you don't get those extra cover ignoring twin-linked shots. I'm hearing the best of both worlds in terms of the Serpent. Which is it?
   
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But with holo fields you you just have to move the minimum to get a 4++ jink all while being AV12 and a dedicated transport AND putting out the equivalent fire power to warwalkers except with a weapon that has a higher strength, ignores cover and causes pining. Not to mention laser lock actually benefits the WS unlike scatter walkers. But I digress, proof is in the pudding, try them yourself if you don't believe.

   
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Florida

DarthDiggler wrote:
 djones520 wrote:
DarthDiggler wrote:
This Serpent love is a little overblown, IMO. It can still get one shot killed right? And when it uses its shield offensively it loses its best defense. Still armor 12.

Think about it. A Vendetta is armor 12 with 3 twin-linked lascannons and I don't see a lot of Vendettas in hover mode around the battlefield.


It's very hard to 1 shot kill it, since it gets a 2+ save against penetrating hits. So you've gotta roll a pen, then he's got to roll a 1, then you've got to roll a 6. Odd's aren't all that high.


Not always true. Most people are proclaiming the benefit of shooting the shield for d6+1 shots. That's mentioned a lot. If you shoot the shield, then you don't get the 2+ save vs. penetrating hits. If you don't shoot the shield, then you don't get those extra cover ignoring twin-linked shots. I'm hearing the best of both worlds in terms of the Serpent. Which is it?


Both, because you have a choice when to use it. Leave the shield on while you are moving your troops into position so they are almost guaranteed to get there. Once they're down, move the Serpent to a position or range that it is optimal at, and now you can use your weapons freely while still enjoying your own cover saves and ignoring your enemy's. If you just want to use them as a tank, then you can do that too - and they are just as deadly as any of the HS tanks for Eldar. Except you can take virtually as many as you want since they are dedicated transports for pretty much everything in the codex.

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DarthDiggler wrote:
 djones520 wrote:
DarthDiggler wrote:
This Serpent love is a little overblown, IMO. It can still get one shot killed right? And when it uses its shield offensively it loses its best defense. Still armor 12.

Think about it. A Vendetta is armor 12 with 3 twin-linked lascannons and I don't see a lot of Vendettas in hover mode around the battlefield.


It's very hard to 1 shot kill it, since it gets a 2+ save against penetrating hits. So you've gotta roll a pen, then he's got to roll a 1, then you've got to roll a 6. Odd's aren't all that high.


Not always true. Most people are proclaiming the benefit of shooting the shield for d6+1 shots. That's mentioned a lot. If you shoot the shield, then you don't get the 2+ save vs. penetrating hits. If you don't shoot the shield, then you don't get those extra cover ignoring twin-linked shots. I'm hearing the best of both worlds in terms of the Serpent. Which is it?


Oh come on, that shield has a 60" range and ignores cover meaning you can fire the WS from a safe range if you wanted, teven without the shield it is AV12 and has a 4++ jink AND closed topped making it way harder to down then WW. Again, I am not saying that WW are bad at all, it's just the act that they made WS better at the same roll.

Also I lawled at the post that compared it to a vendetta, seriously.

   
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Fort Campbell

I don't know how to call this. I don't think the Eldar will have to much difficulty with the armor. Fast Shotting that Icarus will see things dissapear fast. Bright Lances now hit on 3+ instead of 4+, and they'll make short work of AV13.

The biggest problem the Eldar are going to experience is survivability. Thankfully he brought that giant fearless bubble, and placed it well. I think I would have tried to find a few more points to attach some warlocks to those Guardian squads. Their powers will make them much better, especially if you get one or two that helps to recover wounds, that would have been necessary if the LoC and the Avatar meet.

I'm not going to call a winner, but this game is going to be very bloody. Really looking forward to it.

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Getting my broom incase there is shenanigans.

Well, here it is at last

A few quick notes:

I was busy the few days before my game with JY2 so I just threw a bunch of my eldar models together and made a list at work before coming down. When I got to the store I thought that we were going to play BAO missions so I made my list for 1750, but JY2 wanted to play 2000 points. The funny thing is that I looked at my sheet and I only built a 1500 point list so I failed on several fronts. I quickly swapped out my Jetseer for Eldrad, added 10 unpainted warp spiders, and added the harlequins.

My list is basically the foot elder list that I ran at Comikazi Con that I got 2nd place with last fall. I always liked warp spiders and dark reapers and this book just made them better.

I also avoided reading any of JY2 batreps because I wanted to be surprised by what he brought. I am glad that I always took bright lances on my guardians because I was not expecting a lot of soul grinders.

This was really a test game for me since I have not really played my foot eldar much in 6th edition, and I wanted to see what the new codex can do. I ended up making a lot of mistakes that you will see. Not giving any spoilers away but:
I never used Eldrad’s warlord power of +1 cover save (and I could have used it).
I planned on shooting my war walkers and then running back using battle focus, and then I was going to bubble wrapping them with guardians. When it came time to shoot them I forgot to run them and left them out in the open.
I was still stuck in 5th edition with my harlequins and I thought I could assault with them after running. I completely forgot that they can’t do that anymore.
I forgot about warp spiders getting +1 strength against models that are I3 or less. I did not put the pieces together with the soul grinders since they are vehicles.
I also made a lot of stupid mistakes like thinking that the soul grinders battlecannon shot only had a 24” range as seen above on turn #1. .

I will say that JY2 and I both got lucky on the psychic powers that we rolled. I got all of the ones that I wanted, and JY2 got his. I was hoping that he would not get the +4 inv save, but on the very first roll he hit it.



 
   
 
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