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Howdo. Long time to see, hope everyone's good.

So I really, and I mean really, want to play Bolt Action after I've paid off everything. (rent, bills, debt... etc.) Nothing's gonna stop me, and I'd even like to play FoF with them, but that's another story.

So for first army, which will be British, (Germans come later.) I've made a quick 500pt list from an excel builder I found on a Bolt Action site (sorry, forgot which).
The main reason for this list is it has 25 models in it... in line with the box set. So here goes.


Vet 2nd Lieutenant 65
Vet 1sec(NCO+5,1LMG,3SMG) 94
Vet 2sec(NCO+5,1LMG,3SMG) 94
Vet 3sec(NCO+4,3SMG,5ATG) 84

Vet Sniper Team 65
Vet PIAT Team 52
REG Forward Observer (+2men) 20

TOTAL POINTS 500
TOTAL MEN 25

From the look of things, it is SMG heavy, and I am fine with under-strength squads. But if anyone has any amendments or suggestions, I'd be much obliged.

TTFN

I like the list, and think it will work pretty well. Keep in mind I'm working out of Armies of Great Britain, and my playstyle is likely different than yours, but here's how I'd run it:

I'd be tempted to drop some of the SMGs out of those two LMG squads. Ideally, an LMG squad is going to grab cover and then shoot, and the short range on those SMGs will hamper your ability to optimize your cover for rifle and LMG fire.

I think that SMG/AT Grenade squad is too small. It needs to advance on the enemy to do damage, and a smart enemy will never let that happen- 6 men advancing through poor or no cover are just too easy to shoot off the board, or at least whittle down to the point where they are no longer a serious threat.

I'd be hesitant about giving my forward observer two cronies; a unit of three is no longer a 'Small Unit' and might actually be better off with just one assistant. Likewise, giving that spare assistant to your lieutenant would help him survive against enemy potshots.

I prefer Anti-Tank Rifles to shaped charges in small games. They're half the price and half the power, but more importantly have three times the range. PIATs have a range of 12" so essentially have to be fired on the move while advancing, and combined with the Shaped Charge inaccuracy, rarely hit their target. And one shot is all you're going to get, because your enemy will mow you down after you miss. In a 500 point game, you're not likely to see anything heavier than 6+ or 7+, so an anti-tank rifle can hang 36" back in cover, plinking away with it's +2 pen shot (that will have a +2 accuracy bonus over the moving PIAT). It might not take out armor in a single hit like the PIAT, but it will hit more often, add pins, and will survive long enough to get that eventual killshot. Even better, if it pins a vehicle and that vehicle fails to activate, then it's fodder for an assault with Anti-Tank grenades.

The British 25pdr is simply too good to leave at home.



So how would I change your list?

I'd drop the Veteran PIAT team, saving me 52 points. I'd drop a total of 4 SMGs from your two LMG squads, saving me another 12 points. Id drop the Veteran Sniper, saving me 65 points. Finally, I'd drop a single Forward Observer assistant, saving me 10 points. Total savings: 139 points, and 5 models dropped.

I'd add a veteran assistant to my lieutenant for 13 points. I'd add four veteran riflemen with AT grenades to my SMG section for 60 points. I'd add a Regular 25pdr Light Artillery, with a spotter, for 65 points. Total cost: 138 points, and 5 models added, plus the 25 pdr.

Net effects: Your LMG squads get more long range firepower (at the cost of some short range firepower), and your SMG squad gains some extra bodies for absorbing fire or lending bayonets in assault. Your lieutenant gains some survivability, your observer doesn't really lose much. You lose the sniper. You lose the PIAT, but gain a 25pdr, which is much more accurate, has more men, has a gun shield, and has better range, at the expense of mobility and a little bit of AT fire. Oh, and the 25pdr has a spotter and can drop deadly HE on infantry squads.

Hope some of these thoughts help!

That's some great help, thanks!

May I ask what differences the AoGB book adds?

Also, If I use a 25lber, I'll need one of those trucks, a Matador I think, like on Blitzkrieg... love that game. Do they cost points?

The Armies books expand on the lists in the back of the rulebook, and helps make each nation feel unique.

The 25pdr can be fielded with or without a tow, but the truck has to be paid for seperately- the most basic tow (a Morris or a Matador) costs 15 points, the same as a Vet Rifleman with an At grenade. They're handy, especially when you're the attacker and coming in off the edge of the board, since you can use them to haul your gun into a good firing position on turn one. They're less useful if you're starting out deployed on the board, but they do at least generate an order dice every turn.

I think that's something I'll have to ponder on then. I'm feeling the extra die may be a goodie though.

Thanks again!

Are you sure you get that many SMG's in the box? Seems like a lot. I know the Germans only get 6 MP 40's and 3 STG 44's in their 25 man box set.

Good spot, there's only six, or twelve if you cound Thompsons, which I dont (theme-wise), but with Stormfather's ammendments, I think I can make do... baring any clumsy snippings!

Am I correct in presuming you play Germans, MrMoustaffa? If so, could you suggest a 500pt army from that 25man-boxset, just for a second army to get friends into it.

Ta

Yeah sure a 500pt german force isn't hard. Ain't perfect but this uses purely the contents of a single German infantry box, and he'll be able to use all of these models down the line. It's a pretty no nonsense list, but it'll do well against infantry. You could easily shuffle some things around to get a medic or a sniper for more order dice though if you wanted. I just like this one because it's pretty typical of how German infantry would operate, at least from what I understand.

German Infantry Main Book selector - 491pts

Veteran 1st Lt w/ 1 extra man, both with free AR's - 103pts

Veteran Squad: NCO with AR, x4 smg soldiers, x5 riflemen (10 men total) - 121pts

Veteran Squad: NCO with SMG, x1 LMG, x3 Riflemen (5 men total) - 88pts

Veteran Squad: NCO with SMG, x1 LMG, x3 Riflemen (5 men total) - 88pts

Veteran MMG team - 65pts (3 men total)

That list has 25 men total. MMG team and the two LMG equipped rifle squads provide covering fire for the larger vet squad to get up the board. You could keep the officer and his aide with the guys providing covering fire, but I would probably bring them with the assault squad for backup. You can also leapfrog the two LMG squads up the board as well for additional support.

The MMG team you can make by taking a 60mm base and sticking a 3 man machine gun team with an MG 42 on it. MMG teams would have used tripods, but if you have your guy resting his gun on a rock, rock wall, wrecked vehicle, or can make your own, you'll have a cheap and easy MMG team ready to go. It's an iconic weapon for the German and it feels wrong not to have at least one or two MG 42's in a list.

Cool.
I'll look up some pics of the tripod and try to model one, or do like you said and have them shooting through a burned out beetle or something!

Ta

One thing we have noticed is armored cars are great in this game and give you a better deal for dice used for shooting than say a tank does and the lower points fit better in the 500 and 750 point lists. and they are some pretty cool models to build as well the puma for the Germans and the Grey Hound for the USA are pretty sexy kits...lol Good luck

Yeah, I was definitely going for a Puma or two... to me, it makes the army more 'Infantry + Support vehicle' than 'Tank + dudes who guard its flank'