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Hi guys.

It's been 15 years since I layed my hands on an Eldar model. I finally did some shopping today and bought an Eldar battleforce (the old one, with the WW) and a few things :
Wraithgards (I plan on building them with D-sythes)
Spiritseer
Farseer
4 Jetbikes (I will convert one of them as a warlock)

and a few things I need advice on :
1. Wraithlord - I want him with a sword, and flamers I think, but I struggle on the shoulder mounted weapons.
2. Wave serpent - underslung Shuricannon is sure, but what turrets weapons ?
3 2 war walkers. I was thinking SL and BL ?
3 Finally, the gardian squad in the battle force. They have a weapon platform, but what weapon ?

I think my list will look like that :
Farseer
Spiritseer
5 WG with D-sythes in WS
3 jetbikes led by a warlock
1 WL
1 squadron of 2 WW

What would you advise to expend my list, keeping in mind I will have 5 DA and 10 guardians left ?
I was thinking maybe another WG unit, in another WS ?

So, any advice for me ?

Warwalkers are best used in threes and sl /sc is the favored loadout for a reason.
i say magnetize your wraith guard it will allow you to experiment with your prefered loadout for um .
armor isnt as prevalent anymore so bright lances arnt necessary.

If youve got a spiritseer i see no reason another scoring wraithguard unit in ws wouldnt be full of win. Or a (5 or 10) unit of rangers to camp your own backfield objective. Or a few more jetbikes. A 3rd warwalker is always good too.

Im wondering where your gonna put your seers and what role they're gonna have in your list.

Also whats the point ceiling your looking for?

That looks like a great list already so far. I'd advise to take some more Wraithguard and/or Jetbikes so you have plenty of tough/fast Troops for claiming objectives, whichever you prefer.

Do make sure you either build the Wraithlord and War Walkers with some lances to take down armour (as the rest of your list can't), or get a unit or two to specialise in this instead (Wraithguard with d-cannons, or Fire Dragons). As it stands, if you come up against anything like a Land Raider or a few Leman Russes you're pretty boned.

Lastly, the list is very shooty - at higher points levels you'll want to bring something with close combat punch that can free a shooty unit from a protracted combat where necessary. I would suggest Harlequins or Striking Scorpions - or, to keep with the theme, Wraithblades.

For weapon options:

Scatter lasers, Scatter lasers everywhere!

Gets your other stuff twin-linked -> profit.
TL Brigth lance is good AT

Welcome back to the Craftworlds Brother. I highly suggest, no, I emplore you to take a unit of Warp Spiders with Exarch spinnerete rifle and fast shot. This unit is pure joy to see them in action. Better yet, take two as I do in 1000pt and up. They have never dissapointed me yet in the 12 or so 6 edition games I have played so far. I have been running my Serpents with scatter lasers and the shurican cannon upgrade. Tale the holofield as it is near mandatory in my opinion for 15 points.

With Khaine, all is possible.

Warwalkers need SL/SC combo. twin linked ap2 weapons are just fun

Wraith lords should have the same load out as WW as your melee punch will blow up any tank out there.

Warp Spiders are pure win. Really nothing better in the Fast slot out there. (unless ur a biker army)

Dont over look spirit seers. They are a true value for the points and have some amazing abilities to boot.

Wow,thanks a lot guys !

From what I gather, on weapon options :
WS should be SL, with holofield.
WW should be SM/SC or SL/BL
WL should be like the WW.

As purchase options : Warp spiders, another WW, and some wraithguards, maybe with a CC loadout, in a WS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ithani wrote:
If youve got a spiritseer i see no reason another scoring wraithguard unit in ws wouldnt be full of win. Or a (5 or 10) unit of rangers to camp your own backfield objective. Or a few more jetbikes. A 3rd warwalker is always good too.

Im wondering where your gonna put your seers and what role they're gonna have in your list.

Also whats the point ceiling your looking for?

The point ceiling I am looking at is 1500 with some options. The Spirit seer and the farseer will be traveling with the wraithguards in the WS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Super Ready wrote:
That looks like a great list already so far. I'd advise to take some more Wraithguard and/or Jetbikes so you have plenty of tough/fast Troops for claiming objectives, whichever you prefer.

Do make sure you either build the Wraithlord and War Walkers with some lances to take down armour (as the rest of your list can't), or get a unit or two to specialise in this instead (Wraithguard with d-cannons, or Fire Dragons). As it stands, if you come up against anything like a Land Raider or a few Leman Russes you're pretty boned.

Lastly, the list is very shooty - at higher points levels you'll want to bring something with close combat punch that can free a shooty unit from a protracted combat where necessary. I would suggest Harlequins or Striking Scorpions - or, to keep with the theme, Wraithblades.

Wraithblades it will be, I like this theme. I may add a jetbike squad, since they are practically free and can grab/contest a late game objective on a quick turbo boost. Question though : jetbikes have a 12' range (except for the cannon). Which, unless I am mistaken, more or less means that if they fire, they will be charged the next round (which in turn means more or less dead). So, shall I fire only the shuricannon the whole game?

Having never played them makes me a bit hesitant on the path to follow !

 Seb wrote:
Question though : jetbikes have a 12' range (except for the cannon). Which, unless I am mistaken, more or less means that if they fire, they will be charged the next round (which in turn means more or less dead). So, shall I fire only the shuricannon the whole game?

Having never played them makes me a bit hesitant on the path to follow !

Nope, Jetbikes get a 2D6" move in the assault phase after they shoot

 shamikebab wrote:

 Seb wrote:
Question though : jetbikes have a 12' range (except for the cannon). Which, unless I am mistaken, more or less means that if they fire, they will be charged the next round (which in turn means more or less dead). So, shall I fire only the shuricannon the whole game?

Having never played them makes me a bit hesitant on the path to follow !

Nope, Jetbikes get a 2D6" move in the assault phase after they shoot

That's great

Another noob question : are holofields worth it on WW?

Not really no, they get a 5+ inv save that it won't improve. Sure you may get them into cover but at the price level and how easy they are to kill I'd just leave them as stock.

From what I gather, on weapon options :
WS should be SL, with holofield.
WW should be SM/SC or SL/BL
WL should be like the WW.

As purchase options : Warp spiders, another WW, and some wraithguards, maybe with a CC loadout, in a WS.

This is a good start: 3 to 4 Serpents and 3 Warwalkers. Wraithlords are a bit questionable as they are too slow and their damage output is low.
Wraithguard with D scythes is the way to go and of course a Spiritseer.

 wuestenfux wrote:

From what I gather, on weapon options :
WS should be SL, with holofield.
WW should be SM/SC or SL/BL
WL should be like the WW.

As purchase options : Warp spiders, another WW, and some wraithguards, maybe with a CC loadout, in a WS.

This is a good start: 3 to 4 Serpents and 3 Warwalkers. Wraithlords are a bit questionable as they are too slow and their damage output is low.
Wraithguard with D scythes is the way to go and of course a Spiritseer.

I think another WW is granted, to finish the squadron. To add serpents, I think another WG unit is also granted, with axes this time, in a WS.

WL, apart from being a wonderful model (I think), is also a huge and resilient firemagnet. You cannot let him fire, you cannot let him get close, and you do not want to charge him because of the double flamers. In short, I feel like the opponent has to deal with it. I wonder if the being slow thing can be compensated by pairing it with another unit - foot slogging guardians, WW or even another WL.

 Seb wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

From what I gather, on weapon options :
WS should be SL, with holofield.
WW should be SM/SC or SL/BL
WL should be like the WW.

As purchase options : Warp spiders, another WW, and some wraithguards, maybe with a CC loadout, in a WS.

This is a good start: 3 to 4 Serpents and 3 Warwalkers. Wraithlords are a bit questionable as they are too slow and their damage output is low.
Wraithguard with D scythes is the way to go and of course a Spiritseer.

I think another WW is granted, to finish the squadron. To add serpents, I think another WG unit is also granted, with axes this time, in a WS.

WL, apart from being a wonderful model (I think), is also a huge and resilient firemagnet. You cannot let him fire, you cannot let him get close, and you do not want to charge him because of the double flamers. In short, I feel like the opponent has to deal with it. I wonder if the being slow thing can be compensated by pairing it with another unit - foot slogging guardians, WW or even another WL.

Well, I often fielded two full WW squadron in the 5th ed, sometimes outflanking. They always performed very well.
The WL is a mixed bag. Its not easy to give him a role to shine. He's definitely good at taking on outflankers with his 2 flamers. However, if he's too far away from the enemy front ranks, his shooting will hardly impress the foe.

I would like to point out that the Farseer greatly benefits from a Jetbike.

Most of his good powers are Blessings or Maledictions, which require line of sight to activate. This means that while a Farseer is in a Wave Serpent he will only be able to target his attached squad and the Transport.

By giving the Farseer a Jetbike, you increase your casting flexibility by a huge margine. As you are still fast enough to get where you need to go, and you can freely cast Maledictions and Blessings on whichever units need them. You can stick him with the Jetbikes from some albative wounds, or even go for Mantel of the Laughting God if you don't play agaisnt a lot of Tau, Chaos, or Eldar who all kind of scoff at cover.

I'm not sold on WLs much anymore. Their old niche was Eldar heavy weapons with BS4. Now the whole army is BS4, taking this advantage away. There are so many better ways to spend points in the new Codex, so it really isn't a 'loss'. Here are what I love spending points on:

Warp Spiders - No, people aren't finding crack in their Warp Spider boxes...they really are that good.
Guardian Defenders / Dire Avengers - Amazing firepower now, the pseudo-rending is worth its points in gold.
Serpents - Just like 60s colors, Eldar brought back Mechanization.
Wraithguard - With a Spiritseer on the board these get better...and they're already good.
Spiritseer - Runes of Battle you can attach afterwards? SOLD.
Laughtarch Biker Boy - Just silly...and fun...and amazingly frustrating for opponents.

Warp Spiders - No, people aren't finding crack in their Warp Spider boxes...they really are that good.
Guardian Defenders / Dire Avengers - Amazing firepower now, the pseudo-rending is worth its points in gold.
Serpents - Just like 60s colors, Eldar brought back Mechanization.
Wraithguard - With a Spiritseer on the board these get better...and they're already good.
Spiritseer - Runes of Battle you can attach afterwards? SOLD.
Laughtarch Biker Boy - Just silly...and fun...and amazingly frustrating for opponents.

Agreed. Moreover, Fire Prisms and Nightspinners are quite nice for long range fire support, as are Warwalkers.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Warp Spiders - No, people aren't finding crack in their Warp Spider boxes...they really are that good.
Guardian Defenders / Dire Avengers - Amazing firepower now, the pseudo-rending is worth its points in gold.
Serpents - Just like 60s colors, Eldar brought back Mechanization.
Wraithguard - With a Spiritseer on the board these get better...and they're already good.
Spiritseer - Runes of Battle you can attach afterwards? SOLD.
Laughtarch Biker Boy - Just silly...and fun...and amazingly frustrating for opponents.

Agreed. Moreover, Fire Prisms and Nightspinners are quite nice for long range fire support, as are Warwalkers.

So,definitly more serpents and more wraithguards. Which is perfect, since I love the look of them. A squad with axes seems a good idea!
A 3rd WW is granted.

More questions :
- Thoughts on WG loadout ? Flamers and axes seems much better that cannon and swords.
- Warp spiders : I love the look of them. Squads of 5 with an exarch ?

I love the feeling of starting a new army !!

 akaean wrote:
I would like to point out that the Farseer greatly benefits from a Jetbike.

Most of his good powers are Blessings or Maledictions, which require line of sight to activate. This means that while a Farseer is in a Wave Serpent he will only be able to target his attached squad and the Transport.

By giving the Farseer a Jetbike, you increase your casting flexibility by a huge margine. As you are still fast enough to get where you need to go, and you can freely cast Maledictions and Blessings on whichever units need them. You can stick him with the Jetbikes from some albative wounds, or even go for Mantel of the Laughting God if you don't play agaisnt a lot of Tau, Chaos, or Eldar who all kind of scoff at cover.

Id second this- its kinda what i was thinking of when i wondered where you were gonna put him. LOS powers are a bit of a killer for farseers in ws

 Seb wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

Warp Spiders - No, people aren't finding crack in their Warp Spider boxes...they really are that good.
Guardian Defenders / Dire Avengers - Amazing firepower now, the pseudo-rending is worth its points in gold.
Serpents - Just like 60s colors, Eldar brought back Mechanization.
Wraithguard - With a Spiritseer on the board these get better...and they're already good.
Spiritseer - Runes of Battle you can attach afterwards? SOLD.
Laughtarch Biker Boy - Just silly...and fun...and amazingly frustrating for opponents.

Agreed. Moreover, Fire Prisms and Nightspinners are quite nice for long range fire support, as are Warwalkers.

So,definitly more serpents and more wraithguards. Which is perfect, since I love the look of them. A squad with axes seems a good idea!
A 3rd WW is granted.

More questions :
- Thoughts on WG loadout ? Flamers and axes seems much better that cannon and swords.
- Warp spiders : I love the look of them. Squads of 5 with an exarch ?

I love the feeling of starting a new army !!

Well, I'd go for WG with D scythes all the way. CC units need one more turn to do some damage if transported.
Small Warp Spider units can be useful for harassment, but if you want some larger impact, plan for a larger unit of 6 to8 or even 10 members.

Lots of good advice in this thread.

Especially agreed that mechanized psykers don't contribute as much as they should. Though they're not worthless. If using a Farseer you'd be looking for powers that help the unit inside do their job when they get out. Prescience would be nice on Dire Avengers. As would Invisibility. Or a number of other powers could be useful as well. I think you could get one to contribute. The problem for me is that it localizes their impact, where I think the best thing about Farseers is that they can support a lot of units at once.

wuestenfux wrote:

 Seb wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

Warp Spiders - No, people aren't finding crack in their Warp Spider boxes...they really are that good.
Guardian Defenders / Dire Avengers - Amazing firepower now, the pseudo-rending is worth its points in gold.
Serpents - Just like 60s colors, Eldar brought back Mechanization.
Wraithguard - With a Spiritseer on the board these get better...and they're already good.
Spiritseer - Runes of Battle you can attach afterwards? SOLD.
Laughtarch Biker Boy - Just silly...and fun...and amazingly frustrating for opponents.

Agreed. Moreover, Fire Prisms and Nightspinners are quite nice for long range fire support, as are Warwalkers.

So,definitly more serpents and more wraithguards. Which is perfect, since I love the look of them. A squad with axes seems a good idea!
A 3rd WW is granted.

More questions :
- Thoughts on WG loadout ? Flamers and axes seems much better that cannon and swords.
- Warp spiders : I love the look of them. Squads of 5 with an exarch ?

I love the feeling of starting a new army !!

Well, I'd go for WG with D scythes all the way. CC units need one more turn to do some damage if transported.
Small Warp Spider units can be useful for harassment, but if you want some larger impact, plan for a larger unit of 6 to8 or even 10 members.

Cr*p. I really liked the style of the axe WG. But I reckon the Dscythes are just wicked good. I wonder if axes WG could work with a PL of some kind. Downside is I'd have to play under the Iyanden rules to have more than 1 psyker, and I forego the Farseer powers which are awesome.

dnanoodle wrote:Lots of good advice in this thread.

Especially agreed that mechanized psykers don't contribute as much as they should. Though they're not worthless. If using a Farseer you'd be looking for powers that help the unit inside do their job when they get out. Prescience would be nice on Dire Avengers. As would Invisibility. Or a number of other powers could be useful as well. I think you could get one to contribute. The problem for me is that it localizes their impact, where I think the best thing about Farseers is that they can support a lot of units at once.

So, having the Spiritseer riding with the WD, but the Farseer as a solo unit, going where he's needed ? I like that (though converting a Farseer on bike will not be that easy).

Not sure how much this will be worth, but this is my only real experience with wraith units thus far.

I controlled 1500 points of a 3k eldar force vs Guard the other day (avatar, 2 10 man guardian squads, 2 WS, 1 FP, 1 WL, 10 WG & a Hemlock). The 10 wraithguard (axe and forceshield build), the Wraithlord and Avatar walked across the board. Guard fired 2 demolishers & 3 leman russes into the wraithguard for 2 turns and 4 of them still made it to the other side of the board alive.

Wraithlord with 2 flamers butchered through a 30 man squad and we had to end the game with him stood directly infront of 3 LR battle tanks ready to either soak up damage or do some shredding.

I know this probably depends a lot on circumstance, but the wraithy units marching directly towards his line definitely made him a bit nervous, and soaked up a hell of a lot of fire that my guardians & vehicles would not have been able to take!

Seb
Make sure the Spiritseer is with a unit that needs his buffs. In my group we play it that Warlocks and Spiritseers roll their powers first and then attach to squads. Not all people do this. If you do, I'd keep flexible with his placement. WG do look good for a Spiritseer IMO though. With the Farseer it depends on whether you do put him on a bike or not. If so, Guarian Jetbikes are a fine place for him, but I'd want him in a squad of 6, not 3. 3 would worry me as he'd be exposed easily. On foot I often run mine with Rangers or Guardians in cover. Probably supporting my War Walkers and other long-range support. Wraithguard on foot would be a good place too. Same with Harlequins as the Veil of Tears protects him from long-ranged fire. Just make sure that he can reach who he needs to with his powers and that he's not easy to kill.

 dnanoodle wrote:
Seb
Make sure the Spiritseer is with a unit that needs his buffs. In my group we play it that Warlocks and Spiritseers roll their powers first and then attach to squads. Not all people do this. If you do, I'd keep flexible with his placement. WG do look good for a Spiritseer IMO though. With the Farseer it depends on whether you do put him on a bike or not. If so, Guarian Jetbikes are a fine place for him, but I'd want him in a squad of 6, not 3. 3 would worry me as he'd be exposed easily. On foot I often run mine with Rangers or Guardians in cover. Probably supporting my War Walkers and other long-range support. Wraithguard on foot would be a good place too. Same with Harlequins as the Veil of Tears protects him from long-ranged fire. Just make sure that he can reach who he needs to with his powers and that he's not easy to kill.

Good advice. I can buff up to 6 my EJB squad, and put a warlock and the seer in it.

I keep seeing that people like WG on foot. I understand that, but the WS are so good that it seems strange to put the WG on foot. Any reasonning behind that ?
(I understand the seer on foot, to be able to cast)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brandoodle wrote:
Not sure how much this will be worth, but this is my only real experience with wraith units thus far.

I controlled 1500 points of a 3k eldar force vs Guard the other day (avatar, 2 10 man guardian squads, 2 WS, 1 FP, 1 WL, 10 WG & a Hemlock). The 10 wraithguard (axe and forceshield build), the Wraithlord and Avatar walked across the board. Guard fired 2 demolishers & 3 leman russes into the wraithguard for 2 turns and 4 of them still made it to the other side of the board alive.

Wraithlord with 2 flamers butchered through a 30 man squad and we had to end the game with him stood directly infront of 3 LR battle tanks ready to either soak up damage or do some shredding.

I know this probably depends a lot on circumstance, but the wraithy units marching directly towards his line definitely made him a bit nervous, and soaked up a hell of a lot of fire that my guardians & vehicles would not have been able to take!

I'd do that with wraithblades and shield. I would not be comfortable without a somewhat good ++.

 dnanoodle wrote:
Seb
Make sure the Spiritseer is with a unit that needs his buffs. In my group we play it that Warlocks and Spiritseers roll their powers first and then attach to squads. Not all people do this. If you do, I'd keep flexible with his placement. WG do look good for a Spiritseer IMO though. With the Farseer it depends on whether you do put him on a bike or not. If so, Guarian Jetbikes are a fine place for him, but I'd want him in a squad of 6, not 3. 3 would worry me as he'd be exposed easily. On foot I often run mine with Rangers or Guardians in cover. Probably supporting my War Walkers and other long-range support. Wraithguard on foot would be a good place too. Same with Harlequins as the Veil of Tears protects him from long-ranged fire. Just make sure that he can reach who he needs to with his powers and that he's not easy to kill.

I like that warlock house rule but... It's a HUGE benefit to already powerful Eldar.
Spirit seers are just IC so doing that with them is RAW.