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So I usually start with 30 Warp Spiders but in this list I'm cutting back to just 29. Then just fairly standard Wraiths in Serpents with Psyker heavy support. Far seer is mainly to help two units of spiders with AA and twin linking. Spiritseers because I can.

Farseer: Spear 105
Spiritseer 70
Spiritseer 70

Wraithguard: Wave Serpent- SL, Holofields 295
Wraithguard: Wave Serpent- SL, Holofields 295
Wraithguard: D-scythes, Wave Serpent- SL, Holofields, Vectored Engines 360

10 Warp Spiders: 190
10 Warp Spiders: 190
9 Warp Spiders: 171

What do you think?

Immediately i see that you don't have much ranged stuff. The highest range is 36" and that is only strength six...
I would personally try and throw in some reapers in there- just because they always seem to be good when i play them.
Maybe drop a serpent, because if it is an objective game, then one set will probably not want to go very far to hold an objective.

Well the Serpents have 60" range and are S7. The Warp Spiders have a potential 36" threat range and are also S7. Why would my Wraiths with a maximum 12" range not want to move very much?!?!?! Dark Reapers? Are you kidding me?

Well... As i said if they are your only scoring units... They may want to hold an objective...
And i love Dark Reapers. Calm down it's not like i suggested using storm guardians...

Late game they may want to stay on an objective early game they certainly won't and will be needed for the attack. Given that Serpents are one of the best units in the codex having an extra flying around empty mid to late game is hardly a bad idea.

Reapers are not a good option and would add nothing to this list. They may be better than Storm Guardians, Bsnshees or the Hemlock but HS has many better options.

Any other advice? This is likely to be the list I actually buy with next pay check. What would cause this list problems?

I think it's surprisingly balanced. All the normal things are going to cause it issues, like dragons, tau, and the like buuuuuuuut. . . I think it looks good. If you go after the serpents, you ignore the spiders, which will hurt. If you go after the spiders, you ignore serpents with templates and big cannons. It's a bad choice either way. You could always deep strike the spiders too. The only way range is going to effect you is if your wraith guard somehow manage to get stranded in a corner somewhere. Let us know how it plays out.

Hey Flingitnow, your list always contain a larger amount of Warp Spiders. Are there no Helldrakes in your local meta?

Some git runs 3 Helldrakes but I'm unlikely to play him as he's me .

My plan for them is to spread the Spiders to minimise damage. Deep strike them if I'm going 2nd to try to avoid the baleflamer alpha strike. Hope to get Protect/Jinx on a Spiritseer or two (that power is the main reason I'm taking 2), and bounce them into the Spiders turn 2. Also I'll always roll 2 divination if I'm against an army with multiple drakes in the hope for scriers gaze to Krupp the spiders in reserve until after the drakes arrive (if I get it I reserve the Spiders even if going first).

Chaos as an overall army doesn't really scare me and all the good chaos players in my meta are playing Daemons at the moment. So to an extent I'll also just take it from the Helldrakes as I'll kill them the turn after they arrive and the rest of the army isn't a huge concern.

Another fittingly dispicable list. Kudos.

The only thing i'm thinking is if you can only guide/prescience 2 spider units a turn the other is left in the lurch a little. Still very good but what about this:

drop the smaller unit (+171) then take:

Jetbike for the Farseer
8 Jetbikes- 2 SC

Comes to exactly the same points, gives the Seer T4 and 3+ save plus a whole bunch of speed as well as providing a useful dakka unit of jetbikes that are also scoring.

Not strictly Iyanden i know, but just a thought.

Jetbikes are awesome and the best place for a Farseer so he can keep casting. But I want an all Wraith list. The Spiders don't need prescience to be devastating. If they did I would take up your suggestion. But I will definitely think about that.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Jetbikes are awesome and the best place for a Farseer so he can keep casting. But I want an all Wraith list. The Spiders don't need prescience to be devastating. If they did I would take up your suggestion. But I will definitely think about that.

Yeah, i think its a viable choice but not strictly Iyanden, you could always drop the Farseer for a 3rd spirit seer so every wraith unit has one and its 3 chances for that power. would also free up enough points to get that 10th spider, and 20 points left for some more serpant upgrades.

To answer your question about armies giving you issues. Bar the obvious Riptide or Helldrake spam, what about armoured Guard? What i mean by that is massed AV 14 LRBT's or ADL hiding camo cloak manticores and alike. if they take out your serpants (tough call i know) they have enough ap3 templates to ruin your day.

Having said that i would say anyone who can deal with say 2 serpants a turn is gonna fair well against it.

Taking another Spiritseer costs me twin linking the Spiders which is my main AA. A twin linked Spider squad to take down any flyer, then the other spiders and Wave Serpents can help a bit too. I should reliably kill 2-3 flyers a turn with prescience and guide.

Russes don't concern me. Side armour 13 and who takes them still anyway. Manticores don't ignore cover and won't penetrate as the Serpents are great against such attacks now. Remember Spiders can get in behind an ADL turn 2.

I don't think Riptides cause this list a problem the Spiders should take them down easily.

Yeah people that can kill 2 Serpents turn 1 cause this list a massive problem. Assuming I can't hide the Serpents...

Taking another Spiritseer costs me twin linking the Spiders which is my main AA. A twin linked Spider squad to take down any flyer, then the other spiders and Wave Serpents can help a bit too. I should reliably kill 2-3 flyers a turn with prescience and guide.

Agreed, and fully see the thinking behind it.

Russes don't concern me. Side armour 13 and who takes them still anyway. Manticores don't ignore cover and won't penetrate as the Serpents are great against such attacks now. Remember Spiders can get in behind an ADL turn 2.

Again i agree, but a smart player will screen his sides with other things such as chimeras, should you encounter that sort of list. For the manticores i was thinking more about targeting your troops/spiders and dealing with them through weight of wounds, you're gonna fail 3+ saves with enough rolls. Yes the spiders are there turn 2 but again a smart player will be hugging the board edge stopping rear armour shots.

I don't think Riptides cause this list a problem the Spiders should take them down easily.

Really? 10 spiders will do on average (if my math is right, and without twinlinking) 20 hits, 13.3 wounds, 2 of which are ap1, so 11 wounds, so 1.8 wounds plus the 2, 3.8 riptides saves 1, maybe 2 with FNP if lucky. its close but the riptide could well survive, then marker lights plus pie plate= death all around.

Yeah people that can kill 2 Serpents turn 1 cause this list a massive problem. Assuming I can't hide the Serpents

Hiding them could be difficult bearing in mind you will want LOS to fire the SL and shield and you want to get somewhere to unload the wraiths.

I'm not saying it won't work, just trying to highlight worst case scenarios. All in all i think its a nasty and well written list. bar my firm believe a jetbike for the Seer.

I agree Jetseer is the best bet. But I just don't want to do that in this list unless I drop some spiders and I don't want to do that.

After the first turn I'm less concerned if the Serpents die as the Wraiths will be near in position and battle focus can help cover the gap.

If I lose 2 Serpents in the first turn with 2 units of Wraiths stuck in my deployment zone then it will be a massive up hill struggle. Likewise AP3 ignores cover causes me problems. As for IG artillery Collosus is the biggest concern but I've never seen anyone take one.

How about one of these two options:

Farseer: bike spear 120
Spiritseer: Spirit stone 85
Spiritseer 70

8 Jet bikes: cannon 146
5 Wraithguard: Serpent; SL, HF 295
5 Wraithguard: Serpent; SL, HF 295
5 Wraithguard: D-Scythes, Serpent; SL, HF, VE 360

10 Warp Spiders 190
10 Warp Spiders 190

Or

Farseer: bike, Mantle, Runes of Warding 165
Spiritseer: 70
Spiritseer: 70

5 Wraithguard: Serpent; SL, HF 295
5 Wraithguard: Serpent; SL, HF 295
5 Wraithguard: D-Scythes, Serpent; SL, HF, VE 360

9 Warp Spiders 171
9 Warp Spiders 171
8 Warp Spiders 152

The first list makes the changes Mixer86 suggested and gets me the Spirit Stone on a Seer so I can cast VoT and a second power, losing the Warp Spiders to get a big unit of bikes. I lose fire power but gain T4 a Farseer that can cast and another scoring unit. The second introduces the idea of a solo Laughingseer hoping the 2+ reroll able cover can keep him alivewith Runes of warding to reduce any potential psychic attack (plus I had 10 points with nothing to spend it on). He has no spear as I never intend to get him within 12" of any enemy. I still maintain a decent stable of Warp Spiders. It also means a Helldrake comes on and burns a squad I still have 2 units to buff to take him down.

Which do you think is better?

Anyone?

From your original list, the only thing I could see being a problem would be if you manage to lose 2 Serpents early, your ability to take and hold downfield objectives will be nil and you'll only be able to score one yourself.

Other than that it seems like your list wants to wipe enemies off of objectives with quick and deepstriking units, which is a good plan but leaves little room for last turn grabs by lists like CronAir.

I would go for the second one (the one with bikes, to be clear).

Can i ask you why Vectored Engines? I can't see the point in that upgrade, and it costs a lot... with those points, add another cannon to the bikes. Also, i assume the thing you called "spirit stones" on the spiritserr is something else, since he is not a vehicle

Vectored Engines are so I can stick my rear towards the enemy to help catapult the D-Scythes into range. It then shoots and pivots back so the enemy don't get rear shots on the transport. It essentially give the D-Scythes a 6" increase in their threat range. Which is well worth the 15points.

Against Cronair List 2 has the jet bikes to help objective grab. Whilst lists 1&3 should be able to take down all or at least most of their flyers by late game.

True, but this way you miss a shooting phase with the Serpent (it's unlikely you will have something to target, if you have your rear towards the enemy). It may be worth 15 points though.

Since your bikes will have to protect the Farseer, it's unlikely they will get close enough to use shuricatapults... i would suggest to drop one and use those points to get another shuricannon, at least they will do something at medium range. This solves another problem as well, which is that the list you have is currently 1751 points

Remember the top gun is turret. So I'll get 4 S6 twin linked shots at least.

Well, I'd balance the lists a bit. A measure for this could be the amount of first turn shooting (suppression fire) you can bring to bear. Therefore, I always like to max out HS.

I understand the strength of the HS slots. But none really fit this army and what would I drop for them without weakening the list as a whole? Fire Prisms do the same job as the Wraiths and would screw my AA by dropping the Spiders. Ditto War Walkers or if I take SL+SC then they do the same job as the Spiders but give up AA again. Night spinner really adds nothing to this list.

Wraith Lords and Knights are points sinks that again cost me AA.

Without giving up AA what can I take from HS and what do I drop for it?

I thin, based on what you actually want, that your laughing seer list is better.

It covers the initial Seer related concerns and allows him to run around in relative safety buffing what he needs to when he needs to.

Trying to see where you get a 9th spider for unit 3 but .......just......can't!

OCD is making it very annoying for me!!!!! lol.

Yeah that is what I'm leaning too. Triple Warp Spider just gives me great AA and great anti-everything else too. Mainly I like that I can lose a unit and still double guide two units and kill 2 flyers. Plus whatever the Serpents add in terms of AA. Two units leaves my AA vulnerable to the alphastrike of flyers particularly Helldrakes.

Thanks for posting this list. It's really similar to what I've been thinking about.

My comments,

Since the WS are going to be closing quickly (to drop off wraith), they should naturally be within 24". The cannon upgrade should be worth it. (Even if it it means 6 jetbikes instead of 8 to pay for it? )

i've been thinking about war walkers (scatter laser / starcannon) instead of warp spiders.

Everyone agrees 3 spider units are better than one, but the Farseer is just too fragile alone... any FMC or Heldrake that casually passes by can be a serious threat to him, not to mention vs Tau (and anyone that gets the Divination power to ignore cover) you are absolutely sure he will die. Since you need him for AA as well (spiders alone, if not guided, are not so good at that), i think the bikes are a necessity.

Yeah extra cannons can be worth it for the extra bikers but only if I take the bike list.