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I am relatively new player and have built Eldar. I want to build another force and I like the looks of Space Wolves.

I am interested in building a Space Wolves force backed up by Guard allies.

I want the list to be competitive, but I don't know where exactly to start.

Can I get a little help?

The most competitive list for SW with IG allies is a SW drop pod list with vendettas. Something like this.

HQ = 1 character in power armor (usually a rune priest) 100-ish points

At least 3 units of Grey Hunters. Preferably 4 units if possible. For example


Then for your allies, you want to keep them cheap.

One platoon command squad, one veteran squad and 1 or 2 Vendettas with heavy bolter sponsons. This runs about 400 - 550 points.

Depending on the point level you're playing, you may want to add some Long Fangs with missile launchers and or and ADL for them to stand behind.

Experiment.

Grug covered most of it.

Space Wolves:
Rune Priests are really, really good HQs, even without point upgrades.

Grey Hunters are some of the best troops in the game. Take lots of them. Squads of 10 Grey Hunters with 2 special weapons and a wolf standard are really really good. Put them in a drop pod and they get awesome. So yeah, 3-4 full squads of Grey Hunters with a drop pod each is a great starting point for almost any list.

Long Fangs are amazing artillery, it's just very difficult to get five to fifteen missile launchers together without spending a lot of money.
Heavy Bolters on LFs are cheap and really effective. Lascannons are expensive, and in my experience, ineffective for their cost. Avoid Plasma Cannons, they're not worth it.

Imperial Guard:
I've found Veteran Guard squads to be somewhat lackluster in 6e. Their BS4 and multitude of upgrades are nice, but they're difficult to keep alive and effective simultaneously - if they're in a position where they can do some damage, they'll probably die the next enemy turn.

Infantry Platoons are the way to go for IG troops. The PCS can be kitted out with 4 special weapons and make for the perfect troops to grav chute out of a Vendetta. And the Infantry Squads themselves are cheap enough to not be a big deal to use as screens or just backfield objective-holders. They're about as survivable as Guardians, but for nearly half the cost. Plus you can put them in groups bigger than 10.

Vendettas rule the skies right now. Make sure you have at least one if you want the list to be even semi-competitive.

They're not as popular right now, but Leman Russes are also quite good if you use them right. A squadron of 2 LRBTs with camo-netting behind an ADL is one of the hardest things to get rid of without getting into CC... and can be easily bubble-wrapped by the 20+ guardsmen you got with that Infantry Platoon I mentioned earlier. You end up with a 14/13/10 fortress of tanks with a 3+ cover save. Put their asses against the table edge, and you're in great shape.

What kind of an army are you looking to play? You've already got a fast, shooty force with Eldar, are you looking to play something different? SW/IG can castle like crazy, but it can also be extremely in-your-face.

Tzadakim wrote:


Imperial Guard:
I've found Veteran Guard squads to be somewhat lackluster in 6e. Their BS4 and multitude of upgrades are nice, but they're difficult to keep alive and effective simultaneously - if they're in a position where they can do some damage, they'll probably die the next enemy turn.

Infantry Platoons are the way to go for IG troops. The PCS can be kitted out with 4 special weapons and make for the perfect troops to grav chute out of a Vendetta. And the Infantry Squads themselves are cheap enough to not be a big deal to use as screens or just backfield objective-holders. They're about as survivable as Guardians, but for nearly half the cost. Plus you can put them in groups bigger than 10.

Vendettas rule the skies right now. Make sure you have at least one if you want the list to be even semi-competitive.

I apparently come at this with the point of view that more space wolves is better than more IG. Tzadakim is correct in that you will get more bang for your buck with IG platoons. However, there is a very real temptation to upgrade them a lot and thereby suck points away from your space wolves. The very cheapest way you can get two Vendettas in a space wolves army is to take the cheapest IG HQ and the cheapest IG troop choice - NO UPGRADES. It costs 50 points for the CCS and 85 points for the Vet squad (I think - you'd better double check). They aren't supposed to do anything except hide from the enemy on top on an objective in your deployment zone. Let the Space Wolves, supported by Vendettas do all of the real the work.

OR...

You could go the way that Tzadakim is recommending. With an IG infantry platoon you can take 2 or 3 squads of IG and some heavy weapons. This will make a solid line for you to defend your deployment zone with. But it costs points (and $ by the way) which IMHO is better spent on MORE Grey Hunters.

 Grugknuckle wrote:


I apparently come at this with the point of view that more space wolves is better than more IG. Tzadakim is correct in that you will get more bang for your buck with IG platoons. However, there is a very real temptation to upgrade them a lot and thereby suck points away from your space wolves. The very cheapest way you can get two Vendettas in a space wolves army is to take the cheapest IG HQ and the cheapest IG troop choice - NO UPGRADES. It costs 50 points for the CCS and 85 points for the Vet squad (I think - you'd better double check). They aren't supposed to do anything except hide from the enemy on top on an objective in your deployment zone. Let the Space Wolves, supported by Vendettas do all of the real the work.

For sure. 50 points for a CCS and 70 points for a vet squad is definitely the way to go if you just want the 1 or 2 Vendettas to back up your Wolves. I made my statements on the Vet squads partially out of a recent observation that most IG players deck their vets out with crazy upgrades... as high as 140-170 points a squad, which is ludicrous for Guardsmen. Similarly, your Infantry Squads in your platoons can get up to 75-85 points a piece, also insanely expensive if they're not the focus of your list. With IG as Allies, I always take my Infantry Platoons super barebones. Maybe a flamer each, and the normal 4 metalgun PCS. Comes out to 70 points for the PCS and 55 each for the Infantry Squads. More expensive, of course, but still doable in a 1750-2000pt list.

It's mostly that I just always play my IG/SW and SW/IG lists to make the most out of every unit, trying to figure out a way to make them work well together.

Super basic list:
1 Rune Priest
3 10x Grey Hunter squads (2x Flamers, 2x Meltas, 2x Plasma, 3x Wolf Standard)
2 6x Long Fang squads (5x Missile and 5x Heavy Bolter)
1 CCS (no upgrades)
1 Platoon (2x Infantry Squads w/ flamers, PCS w/ 4 meltaguns)
1 Vendetta

Off the top of my head, that's about 1280 with no further upgrades. Plenty of room to work off of that. Or just cut out the Platoon and have a basic vet squad with no upgrades, and you're down to 1170.

Rune Priest: Living Lightning; Jaws of the World Wolf; melta bombs; wolf tail talisman. 110

10 Grey Hunters: meltagun; meltagun; Mark of the Wulfen. 215
• Drop Pod: locator beacon.
10 Grey Hunters: meltagun; flamer; Mark of the Wulfen. 215
• Drop Pod: locator beacon.
10 Grey Hunters: plasma gun; Mark of the Wulfen. 220
• Drop Pod: locator beacon.

5 Long Fangs: Squad Leader (plasma gun; plasma gun); 4× missile launcher; plasma cannon. 180

Company Command Squad 50

Platoon Command Squad: Heavy Weapons Team (missile launcher). 45
Veteran Squad: Veteran Weapons Team (missile launcher). 85

1 Vendetta Gunship: sponson heavy bolters. 140
1 Vendetta Gunship: sponson heavy bolters. 140

Aegis Defence Lines: gun emplacement with quad-gun. 100

1,500 points

Is this about what you had in mind?

+1

Tzadakim and I are on the same page here. For me, I have 60 Grey Hunters that are already painted masterclass, so I'm going to choose them over IG models that I don't own. That doesn't mean you can't make a viable list with more guardsmen. On the contrary, IG blobs are really difficult to kill when you're busy dealing with 40 rabid space wolves. So either IG/SW or SW/IG lists can be extremely competitive.

However you decide Daner, good luck with it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Daner0023 wrote:
Rune Priest: Living Lightning; Jaws of the World Wolf; melta bombs; wolf tail talisman. 110

Does not need melta bombs or a WTT. Drop those and either save the 10 points or spend it on a chooser of the slain.

10 Grey Hunters: meltagun; meltagun; Mark of the Wulfen. 215
• Drop Pod: locator beacon.
10 Grey Hunters: meltagun; flamer; Mark of the Wulfen. 215
• Drop Pod: locator beacon.
10 Grey Hunters: plasma gun; Mark of the Wulfen. 220
• Drop Pod: locator beacon.

Cannot take locater beacons with space wolves. Also your points are wrong or else you've forgotten the Wolf Standard in each of these squads. Each squad should take two of the same kind of special weapon. Either 2 plasmaguns, or 2 meltaguns. Ditch the flamer, or take two.

5 Long Fangs: Squad Leader (plasma gun; plasma gun); 4× missile launcher; plasma cannon. 180

Do not take a plasma cannon. Change that into a missile launcher (or a las cannon if you're short on ML models). The plasmagun on the seargent is a waste of points. He can't shoot it if you use him to split fire. Just stay with a bolt pistol.

Company Command Squad 50

Platoon Command Squad: Heavy Weapons Team (missile launcher). 45
Veteran Squad: Veteran Weapons Team (missile launcher). 85

1 Vendetta Gunship: sponson heavy bolters. 140
1 Vendetta Gunship: sponson heavy bolters. 140

Aegis Defence Lines: gun emplacement with quad-gun. 100

1,500 points

Is this about what you had in mind?

I think the IG look fine.

I am definitely thinking Space Wolves, backed up by Vendettas and perhaps some Leman Russ' if I have the points. The IG troops are slated to sit back and fire a Quad Gun or something minimal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am definitely thinking Space Wolves, backed up by Vendettas and perhaps some Leman Russ' if I have the points. The IG troops are slated to sit back and fire a Quad Gun or something minimal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I amended the list clean it up some:

Rune Priest: Living Lightning; Jaws of the World Wolf; runic armour; plasma pistol; melta bombs; wolf tail talisman. 145

10 Grey Hunters: meltagun; meltagun; Wolf Standard; Mark of the Wulfen. 215
• Drop Pod
10 Grey Hunters: flamer; flamer; Wolf Standard; Mark of the Wulfen. 210
• Drop Pod
10 Grey Hunters: plasma gun; plasma gun; Wolf Standard; Mark of the Wulfen. 220
• Drop Pod

5 Long Fangs: Squad Leader (plasma gun; plasma gun); 5× heavy bolter. 145

Company Command Squad 50

Platoon Command Squad: Platoon Commander (melta bombs); Heavy Weapons Team (missile launcher). 50
Veteran Squad: 3× sniper rifle. 85

1 Vendetta Gunship: sponson heavy bolters. 140
1 Vendetta Gunship: sponson heavy bolters. 140

Aegis Defence Lines: gun emplacement with quad-gun. 100

1,500 points

Not too bad, but you've got a couple things a little mixed up.

First off, way too much on your Rune Priest. I understand that they have a bunch of fun options, but if you're looking to play them competitive, their entire purpose is their psyker powers. If you're going to spend any points on upgrades, you get Chooser of the Slain (two reasons: it's a pain for Infiltrate-heavy armies, and it makes your Living Lightning or Murderous Hurricane that much more accurate) or you can make him a Master of Runes (Psyker level 2). Much more useful if you're taking Divination or Biomancy to buff your IG blob. Either way... Plasma Pistol is a waste of points, WTT is overkill (You get a 4+ roll to cancel out any psyker power cast within 24"), and while the runic armor seems really good, it's usually not worth it.

Grey Hunters are good.

Long Fangs are good, but like Grug said, you don't want a plasma gun on the squad leader. Ever. Not only is it more points, but you can't always shoot. And if you do get to shoot, you might kill your source of Split Fire. Just avoid plasma on your characters.

CCS is fine, but if you have 5 or 10 points to spare, you can add a Mortar or Autocannon team to it.

PCS is fine, but you can't take it without taking the rest of the Platoon. Minimum composition of an Infantry Platoon is a PCS and two Infantry Squads (18 guardsmen and 2 sergeants). So you can drop the vet squad and add in two infantry squads, or drop the PCS. I'd say just give the Missile Launcher team to your CCS (BS4), drop the PCS (BS3), and buff up your Vets a little.

Vet squad could use a Heavy Weapons Team. Missile Launcher or Autocannon work well with Snipers. OR... and this is just me... you can take Gunnery Sergeant Harker with your vet squad, and gain the ability to Infiltrate them into some well-placed cover. Even give the group Forward Sentries to bump them up to a 4+ or 3+ cover. Personally, I really like Harker with a 3 sniper vet squad, but this is more of a fun choice than a competitive one.

Vendettas look good. But honestly, I've always found the heavy bolter sponsons to be overkill on them. And I don't ever take my flyers in squadrons, but I typically play IG as my primary. What do you plan to put IN the Vendettas? This is just me, but I would drop the Vendetta count to one and use the remaining 150 points (130 Vendetta, 20 Heavy Bolter Sponsons from both) to put together an Infantry Platoon... probably PCS with 3-4 Flamers, and a sniper rifle each on the Infantry Squads. They can just sit on backfield objectives.

ADL is good, of course.

How do you want to play the list? You're getting the basic idea behind the armies, but... and take this from someone who approached IG the same way at first... fielding IG means either lots of cheap, good vehicles, or TONS and TONS of infantry. Those are the important parts of an IG force. In fact, most IG vehicles can be taken without upgrades and still be super effective. Basic LRBT with no upgrades is 150 points of awesome: 14/13/10 AV, 3 hull points, and a 72" S8 AP3 Large Blast. VERY straightforward. So instead of taking tons of upgrades, you take tons of vehicles. But if you're going for vehicles, just take a single vet squad with no upgrades. And hide them backfield on an objective. Same with your CCS, just keep it simple.
On the other hand, an infantry-heavy list will have at least one 40-50 model Infantry Platoon, preferably two. In addition, you want 4 special weapons on the PCS, 1 special weapon on each Squad, Meltabombs and maybe power axes on the sergeants. Probably a commissar to keep it from getting swept or run off the table. Gets you up in the neighborhood of about 400+ points per Platoon. But it's a REALLY tough nut to crack. Put a Master of Runes with Divination in with them, and you potentially have a 50-man squad with 5 flamers, 5 power axes, 4++ and reroll to hit... and it's really really good.

For a Rune Priest, the only upgrades you should ever consider are Runic / Terminator armor and a chooser of the slain. Everything else is a waste of points. Master of runes sounds nice, but 50 points is half way to another priest and casting two powers per turn dramatically increases the odds of getting perils of the warp. And...Why spend 15 pts on a plasma pistol when you'll be casting living lightning instead?

The over-riding principle is this: Less wargear, more models. You should strive to keep your stuff cheap. Don't take 15 point upgrades on things that don't need it. Case in point, your Long Fangs sergeant. That plasmagun has a 24" range while the heavy bolters have a 36" range. You want to deploy this unit in the center of your deployment zone in a spot with a good field of view and some cover if possible. They aren't going to move probably because if they do, they aren't as effective shooting. Ideally, you'll be shooting at enemy troops that are 24" - 36" away from you - close enough to be within range of your heavy bolters, but far enough away that they can't shoot you back. That puts them out of range of your 15 point plasma rifle. Meaning that you've paid 15 points for a piece of wargear that you probably won't use at all! Even if you shoot it twice, it's not worth that price! So just leave it at the armory and spend the 15 points somewhere else.

First of all, I really appreciate all of the responses I have received. The community has been helpful and informative in helping me put together a core list to build this idea around. Here is what I am thinking with all of your suggestions:

Rune Priest: Living Lightning; Jaws of the World Wolf; runic armour; melta bombs; Chooser of the Slain. 135

10 Grey Hunters: meltagun; meltagun; Wolf Standard; Mark of the Wulfen. 215
• Drop Pod
10 Grey Hunters: flamer; flamer; Wolf Standard; Mark of the Wulfen. 210
• Drop Pod
10 Grey Hunters: flamer; flamer; Wolf Standard; Mark of the Wulfen. 210
• Drop Pod

5 Long Fangs: 5× heavy bolter. 115

Company Command Squad: Veteran Weapons Team (missile launcher). 65

Veteran Squad: 3× sniper rifle; Veteran Weapons Team (autocannon). 95
Veteran Squad: Veteran Sergeant (shotgun); 3× sniper rifle; Veteran Weapons Team (autocannon). 95

1 Vendetta Gunship 130
1 Vendetta Gunship 130

Aegis Defence Lines: gun emplacement with quad-gun. 100

1,500 points

Let me know if there are any more tweaks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
First of all, I really appreciate all of the responses I have received. The community has been helpful and informative in helping me put together a core list to build this idea around. Here is what I am thinking with all of your suggestions:

Rune Priest: Living Lightning; Jaws of the World Wolf; runic armour; melta bombs; Chooser of the Slain. 135

10 Grey Hunters: meltagun; meltagun; Wolf Standard; Mark of the Wulfen. 215
• Drop Pod
10 Grey Hunters: flamer; flamer; Wolf Standard; Mark of the Wulfen. 210
• Drop Pod
10 Grey Hunters: flamer; flamer; Wolf Standard; Mark of the Wulfen. 210
• Drop Pod

5 Long Fangs: 5× heavy bolter. 115

Company Command Squad: Veteran Weapons Team (missile launcher). 65

Veteran Squad: 3× sniper rifle; Veteran Weapons Team (autocannon). 95
Veteran Squad: Veteran Sergeant (shotgun); 3× sniper rifle; Veteran Weapons Team (autocannon). 95

1 Vendetta Gunship 130
1 Vendetta Gunship 130

Aegis Defence Lines: gun emplacement with quad-gun. 100

1,500 points

Let me know if there are any more tweaks.

Solid start!

You've also got some flexibility in that you can change out your Vet squad special weapons for meltaguns or grenade launchers and stick them in the Vendettas effectively. Now that you've got a better idea as to the armies' practicality, you can play around with the fluff and options a bit more. Looking forward to hear about how it works for you!

Yup.

This is a great all-rounder.