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Ok I Am about to stir up some trouble I think with this one...

On a Vanilla Space Marine Sergeant..

Is it possible to get a different weapon per each of the weapons the sergeant starts with?

(ie. taking a plasma pistol and chainsword)



edit)) AFAIK you're allowed to dip into a list of things to take more than once yes? ie vehicles taking HKM and Dozers etc

You are given permission to swap boltgun and/or bolt pistol with items from the list, so yes, you can equip him with any combination you want. Only a few are viable though.

Dra'al Nacht wrote:
You are given permission to swap boltgun and/or bolt pistol with items from the list, so yes, you can equip him with any combination you want. Only a few are viable though.

so... I can take 2 combis?

or combi / stormbolter?

Yes, you can select two weapons from the list if you trade in your old ones. You can also select two of the same weapons for dual wielding. But note that you can still only fire 1 ranged weapon per shooting phase, unless you have two pistols.

 Redemption wrote:
Yes, you can select two weapons from the list if you trade in your old ones. You can also select two of the same weapons for dual wielding. But note that you can still only fire 1 ranged weapon per shooting phase, unless you have two pistols.

I think I like the idea of bringing 2 combi weapons for options.

Combi-Melta / Combi-Flamer Sergeants are 36 points, Seems like the new meta in comparison to the old 41 point power fist staple which is now pretty niche and bad imo given challenges.

I am away from my space marine codex at the moment, so I do not have the exact wording in front of me. However, I am sure it is worded exactly like every other marine codex out there when it comes to swapping weapons from the front of the army list. There is something within that rule which has always bothered the hell out of me.

It is worded with 'and/or' before stating 'one of the following.' That does make for an interesting Rules as Written argument, though it is clearly not the intent of the rule, thanks to the way 'and' works in English writing. That line states you have the choice to swap out one of your weapons for one of the following, or both of your weapons for one of the following!

Now I am pondering an argument that allows you to evoke the rule twice, would that be possible?

JinxDragon wrote:
I am away from my space marine codex at the moment, so I do not have the exact wording in front of me. However, I am sure it is worded exactly like every other marine codex out there when it comes to swapping weapons from the front of the army list. There is something within that rule which has always bothered the hell out of me.

It is worded with 'and/or' before stating 'one of the following.' That does make for an interesting Rules as Written argument, though it is clearly not the intent of the rule, thanks to the way 'and' works in English writing. That line states you have the choice to swap out one of your weapons for one of the following, or both of your weapons for one of the following!

Now I am pondering an argument that allows you to evoke the rule twice, would that be possible?

The PARTICULAR set of groupings I am talkign about (specifically SGTs) does not AT ALL say "ONE OF THE FOLLOWING" or "ANY OF THE FOLLOWING"


edit and how do you think you double dip for dual lightning claws?

There's no 'one of the following'. It's just:
The Space Marine Sergeant replace his boltgun and/or bolt pistol with:
- a chainsword
- a stormbolter
- etc

Before I continue I would like you all to take note that I do agree the intent is very clear, for you to be able to swap out both weapons for two other weapons. I am only pointing out that the wording they use, from a Rules as Written perspective, is very... very... poor. I even accept it might be different in the vanilla space marine book as I still do not have access to that book directly, but I do have access to two other books right now.

Those being the Dark Angel codex and the Choas Marine codex.

Within these books you will find the point cost of individual war gear that is referred to in many entries, on page 91 in both books. Within the section of Melee Weapons is the limitation 'one of the following' right after it states and/or. From a rules as written perspective, this does mean you can only swap both weapons for one of the weapons in that list. Clearly not as intended, seeing you also can chose to swap just one or the other so no one in their right mind would ever give up both.

Just, again, the wording they use is what I have a problem with and not the intent.

The Ranged Weapon section right underneath it is not much better. It doesn't state an and/or option, it just sets forth the single limitation that you may swap one weapon for one of the following. That could also be used to make an argument that you are not allowed to carry two plasma pistols or the likes, because the limitation is only allowing you to swap one for one and makes no mention of allowing you to swap two for two.

The only way around this limitation would be to evoke the rule twice. That way you would still be swapping one for one, you just complete the transaction then go back and start a new one. While I do think this is possible from a rule as written perspective, I just want a better argument then 'it states I can take items under the champion/Sargent entry, therefore I can evoke the rule twice.'