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Archmage lvl 4 with book
Noble BSB Sword of Might/Shield of Merwyrm and heavy armour
Noble Armour of Caledor/Halberd
Mage lvl 2 Dispell Scroll (High Magic)
All characters are with Phoenix Guard

Core
15 Silverhelms FC with Shields
5 Ellyrian Reavers
18 Archers Musician

21 Phoenix Guard Razor Banner Fc
24 White Lions Fc

Frostheart Phoenix
10 Sisters of Avelorn
Giant Eagle

The Phoenix Guard goes 5x5 so my mages can sit in the second rank with the nobles in front. my lvl 2 maxs out my Phoneix ward save to a 3+. but im not sure what to run on my lvl 4. thinking between life and beast. the problem with life is that the spells wont be as useful till combat when i want to beef up my units toughness and heal back some models. beast can help silverhelms if they get stuck in combat and give my nobles more defence to stay alive so my mages wont have to go in the front lines.

grecman wrote:
my lvl 2 maxs out my Phoneix ward save to a 3+.

You might want to reread the lore attribute. It affects the caster and his unit. So if all your characters are in the phoenix guard, you will max out their ward.


As for the list, take the 4+ ward on your level 4. It helps vs miscasts.

I'm not a fan of that build on a BSB. It gives you a 4+ ward in combat. I find that he is most vulnerable to stuff like Lore of Death, and cannons.

Core is fine, although I find that filling my core with units of 6 silver helms and units of 10 archers is far more efficient as it allows you to control the deployment. And with your list being defensive. I.E. Big block of Phoenix guard and no BoTWD on the lions, you need to make sure you get favourable matchups.

The phoenix guard are fine, but they need shadow magic to fight.

White Lions kind of need the BoTWD, as your opponent will probably nuke them. They have a 3+ armour against shooting and no save against magic.

As for the phoenix. One doesn't cut it. You need two, or none at all. I also find that a unit of 10 sisters and two 5s is a far better approach for your rare. As it gives you regen poppers, and allows you to take 4 bolt throwers for damage. And don't underestimate S4, magical, flaming bows.

Your units are too small.

yeah i didnt mean max out the phoenix i meant phoenix guard.
im gonna give the BSB a ward save over that shield. and find points to give the white lions the BoTWD

 pities2004 wrote:
Your units are too small.

You don't need more than 24 white lions. You get the same amount of attacks vs a 5 wide unit from 8 wide unit of 24 as you would from a horde of 30

thedarkavenger wrote:

You don't need more than 24 white lions. You get the same amount of attacks vs a 5 wide unit from 8 wide unit of 24 as you would from a horde of 30

But not from a horde of 40.

I don't like putting all your characters in one place. Means your other units aren't supported, and your characters can all be hit by a single dwellers. I think the Silver Helms in particular would benefit from some MR or other non-armor protection vs metal magic etc.

kooshlord wrote:

thedarkavenger wrote:

You don't need more than 24 white lions. You get the same amount of attacks vs a 5 wide unit from 8 wide unit of 24 as you would from a horde of 30

But not from a horde of 40.

I don't like putting all your characters in one place. Means your other units aren't supported, and your characters can all be hit by a single dwellers. I think the Silver Helms in particular would benefit from some MR or other non-armor protection vs metal magic etc.

An 8 wide unit of 32 will more often than not, do the same amount as a horde of 40. Martial prowess + horde is nice, but you need to REALLY invest into a unit to benefit from it. As such, it starts taking up 60%+ of your special allotment.

As for the mages, they are best suited for a phoenix bunker. Anything that hits them has to fight phoenix guard, and they don't die easily.

Putting ALL of your characters in one unit is always a very, very bad idea. If that unit gets targeted by a 6th Spell, like Dwellers, or runs of the board, you're losing a lot of models. The fact that all of the models in the unit are only T3 makes everything even more vulnerable to Dwellers. it's not worth it to keep your Mage out of combat. He should have a good Ward Save and you should be making sure the unit doesn't get in a combat it doesn't want to be in.

So, I would drop the non-BSB Noble and get some more White Lions.

After that, you'll have a pretty good list. Nice work

If i drop the noble then i wouldn't want to keep my mages in there. the point of the two nobles is to keep the mages in the second rank so they can't get targeted. I made the two nobles more bulky with armour of caledor and armour of destiny. and i gave my lvl 4 a ward save. it still makes me very valuable to dwellers. there is no way to really avoid dwellers
What if i kept the two nobles and the lvl 2 in with the phoenix guard and left the archamage with the sisters or archers. doesnt erase the problem completely but it could help.

If your archmage sees combat, then there has been an error on your part. I find it better to keep him in archers behind the army, unless you run the wood elf list, then he sits in the big unit, or the princebus where he rides around throwing savage beasts at characters.

Or give the AM the ToP (for the 4++) with 1 successful high magic spell he's sitting on a 3++... stick him at the end of the unit.. he's got 3 wounds with 3++... if the enemy is wasting attacks on him.. so be it..

quick mathhammer: AM = 3 wounds to kill = 9 wounds before 3++ = 13.5 hits (assuming S4) = 27 attacks (assuming WS 4).

So yeah... good luck killing that Archmage.

If he does take a wound or whatever... Apotheosis it back to full next turn (while getting your ward save back up)..

The BoH+ToP fits the Loremaster and Archmage so well it's made to be!

Try using character with Crown of command in your Phoenix guard unit.
Just before you get charged, swift reformed your unit 2 wide. First rank champion and standard, second musician and character. After champion dies, its still standard and musician.
An you get to attack with 3 ranks, with ASF, reroll, decens WS ans S4. So you can slowly remove characters from opponents unit. While you are on a receiving end of very low ammount of attacks (very narrow frontage).
It can be done with all units but PG will still threaten characters and due to High WS and ward will keep the fight on.

And enemy unit is tied there until the end of battle or until it gets flanked. If opponent doesn't charge, you do it. or keep AM is safe for another round.
Of course once you reform to 2 wide, everyone will know what 's in the box