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Hi folks,

I'm after some feedback from our Orky contingent if at all possible.

I play Grey Knights and/or Necrons and I'm constantly getting complained at by a certain friend and member of my gaming group that his Ork codex simply doesn't have the tools to take apart my army. The guy hasn't beaten me at all in 6th ed and is clearly annoyed by that fact. I'm convinced he's just tactically inept or taking the wrong units but he is steadfast in his belief that the Orks just can't beat the Grey Knights, especially with Necron allies.

So...

I've proposed that the next time we play, he uses my regular army list and I make a list to use an Orky one.

I've only had a quick look at his codex but would I be right in thinking that a decent 1750 list is going to be something like:

Warboss on bike with Power Klaw
Biker Nobz with Pain Boy and Boss Pole, all Power Klaws and Twin-Linked Shootas
A couple of shooty Boyz units
Two or three big units of Lootas behind an ADL
A couple of Dakka Jets

Any particular feedback you can provide me for a competitive Ork army at 1750 would be much appreciated. I just want to show the guy that it's not his choice of codex that's the problem, it's his army selection and tactics!

Generally my 1750 GK/Necron list is something like:

Coteaz
Three plasma cannon servitors behind an ADL (Coteaz attached manning quad gun)
Two full units of Grey Knights with Psybolt and Psycannons
Dreadknight with Heavy Incinerator and Teleporter
Destroyer Lord
Wraiths
Two Night Scythes with 5 Warriors aboard each
Annihilation Barge

I reckon Orks have everything they need to be able to beat my list, and I want to prove it to him.

Any feedback in particular from the Orky mobs?

Cheers.

It's also his codex.

The ork codex was released in 4th edition, it's showing it's age. You are combining two of the more recent (and regarded as more powerful) codices and taking some fairly heavyweight choices from them.

Codex creep exists.



That said.

3 battlewagons.

MAWarboss + MANs/mixed nobs w painboy in one
15 Burna Boyz in another - Template of doom, any unit it touches will die.
19 boyz w BigMek KFF in the last one.
Dakka Jets, All the trimmings.
ADL, Quad, Big unit of grots
Lootas

...and perhaps some Tau allies to give him nasty ranged.

Biker nobs are a point sink and not what they used to be, if he wants to take them, not all pks, take a mostly big choppa unit and mix one or two pks into the mix, and make sure they take the Waagh banner.



But please, don't post saying this fella is talking bollocks whilst he's using an extremely old codex and you're using a combo of two competitive recent ones.

From your description of your friend's list, he is putting way too many points into his Nob Bikers. 7 Power Klaws is overkill. I generally run 5-7 Nob Bikerz with 1-2 PKs. Shoota Boyz in 2 Battlewagons for mobility and a KFF Big Mek for survivability. I like the T7 Grots in a Kannon Battery to shoot the Quad Gun behind the ADL, but regular Grots work OK. 1 tor 2 max units of Lootas, usually 2.

1750 for Orks
2 Warboss Bikkers (HQ) Cybork, PK, Attack Squig, Bosspole (1 Warboss with an Ammo Runt)
2 Units of 10 Nob Bikkers (Troops), Painboy, Cybork, Orderly, Waaagh! Banner.

3 Units of 3 Big Gunz Kannons, 3 Ammo Runts, 6 Extra Crew. ADL and Quad Gun (he'll Like Skyfire).

I prefer using the Kannons (partly because I hate Barrage) and they can go to ground, even with 12 Toughness 7 Grots because they do not have Mob Rule. behind an ADL it's a cover of +2. Making them very difficult to dig out - but if you are paying them all your attention, the Bikkers will get a chance to take apart anything they get their hands on.

If they want to use Lobbas instead - Take away the Warboss Ammo runt, take 2 Units of Lobbas, leaving the Kannons on the Quad Gun. keep the 3 ammo runts, and take 3 extra crew per unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is about as competitive as Orks can get. Since you love to thrash them, it wont make much of a difference. You will probably still win and eventually you wont have them as a member of your gamming group.

Enceladus wrote:
I've proposed that the next time we play, he uses my regular army list and I make a list to use an Orky one.

I've only had a quick look at his codex but would I be right in thinking that a decent 1750 list is going to be something like:

Warboss on bike with Power Klaw
Biker Nobz with Pain Boy and Boss Pole, all Power Klaws and Twin-Linked Shootas
A couple of shooty Boyz units
Two or three big units of Lootas behind an ADL
A couple of Dakka Jets

That sounds pretty solid, I'll just point out some minor mistake stemming from you having little experience with orks:
- Nob bikers don't need TL-Shootas - ork bikes come with a dakka gun, which is pretty much a short-ranged, twin-linked heavy bolter.
- Putting more than three klaws in any unit of nobz will totally overkill your target, and then kill it some more. If you plan on sticking your warboss with your nob bikers, you should not buy more than two klaws. Also make sure to bring a Waaagh! banners, so your klaws get more hits.
- If you bring an ADL anyways, you might also want to bring a minimal unit of gretchin. They cost close to nothing, are scoring, and may fire the quad gun at BS3. Even if your opponent guns them down, he is wasting a lot more points than you invested.
- You should bring a Mek with a KFF, further gear optional. You'll have a hard time getting all those boys in cover and focus fire can kill them in droves. KFF helps a lot with that.

Generally my 1750 GK/Necron list is something like:

Coteaz
Three plasma cannon servitors behind an ADL (Coteaz attached manning quad gun)
Two full units of Grey Knights with Psybolt and Psycannons
Dreadknight with Heavy Incinerator and Teleporter
Destroyer Lord
Wraiths
Two Night Scythes with 5 Warriors aboard each
Annihilation Barge

I reckon Orks have everything they need to be able to beat my list, and I want to prove it to him.

Any feedback in particular from the Orky mobs?

Cheers.

The truth is, close combat got a major kick in the nuts with 6th, and due to lazy FAQ-updating by GW orks lost a little on basically every unit besides bikers, dakka jets and big guns. If you play orky (Waaagh! Charge!) you will suffer the full effect from all those changes and are pretty much bound to lose against any modern codices. Luckily, orks are jacks of all trades, so we can do a full switch to shooting gunline without losing too much - and that's the only way do reliably defeat a competitive opponent.

 Jidmah wrote:

The truth is, close combat got a major kick in the nuts with 6th, and due to lazy FAQ-updating by GW orks lost a little on basically every unit besides bikers, dakka jets and big guns. If you play orky (Waaagh! Charge!) you will suffer the full effect from all those changes and are pretty much bound to lose against any modern codices. Luckily, orks are jacks of all trades, so we can do a full switch to shooting gunline without losing too much - and that's the only way do reliably defeat a competitive opponent.

Jidmah is, as always, correct. In 6th, the best way for Orks to "win" is switching to a full-on gunline strategy. As an Ork player, personally I also find this extremely frustrating, since it forces me to play Orks in a way that I don't enjoy playing them, and I feel out of my entire codex there are only about 4 units that are really worth taking anymore (Boyz, Lootas, Dakkajets, (Biker)Nobz, Buggies, and Artillery... basically all the shooty elements of the codex)

Also on a personal note, while it does sound like your friend is making some "mistakes" in his Ork list (for example, putting Power Klaws on every Nob biker) calling him "tactically inept" when he can't beat your list I think is a bit unkind, since honestly your Grey Knight / Necron list is built as a tournament-beat-down list that sounds a bit out of this player's league.

I know that personally, I wouldn't have a lot of fun going up against your list on a regular basis in a casual gaming setting. Why don't you turn the beatdown knob on YOUR army down from "11"? Both you and your friend might have more fun.

Enceladus wrote:
So...

I've proposed that the next time we play, he uses my regular army list and I make a list to use an Orky one.

I've only had a quick look at his codex but would I be right in thinking that a decent 1750 list is going to be something like:

Warboss on bike with Power Klaw
Biker Nobz with Pain Boy and Boss Pole, all Power Klaws and Twin-Linked Shootas
A couple of shooty Boyz units
Two or three big units of Lootas behind an ADL
A couple of Dakka Jets

Any particular feedback you can provide me for a competitive Ork army at 1750 would be much appreciated. I just want to show the guy that it's not his choice of codex that's the problem, it's his army selection and tactics!

Seems to me, it is Enceladus (owner of the Necron/Tau) who wants to make an Ork army to show his friend that a winning army can be made.

@Enceladus
Boss on bike with Klaw is nice. Needs ablative wounds or good manoeuvring to keep him alive.
Bikes - they are fast and effective. Would they reach your Necron/Tau by turn 2, turn 3, or would it move about playing keep-away.
Lootas behind an ADL is common. Does your list have much ignore cover?
Shoota Boyz work. Give them a Nob with Boss pole as Ork/Nob leadership is low. If you expect them to see CC (even if its a situational charges/resist CC) then give the Nob a Power Klaw.
Dakka Jet - No comment. I don't care for flyers unless you take plenty, so I don't field any.

I would add, that big guns are cheap and often effective for what they do. 3 Kannon (plus ammo runts plus extra crew) attached to an ADL quad gun or Icarus is pretty nice given grot BS, and the ammo runts can be used on the Icarus.

I'm an eldar player but:

The orks are probably in need of a boost more than any other army. I like that you are switching armies with your friend and this should hopefully help him realise that his army can work well and help him enjoy the game more.

I have respect for anyone who doesn't go for the winning codexes out there so be supportive with your friend so you don't lose a fun army to play against.

That said however it is still perfectly possible (albeit with greater challenge) to win given the right strategies.

Orks are not really consistent with the fluff that they are close combat beasts anymore. Instead go for the big gunz!!

Go for Kannons, ADL quad gun, lootas, shootaboyz and strip back the nob bikerz a lil bit.