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How do people rate them now? Are they more usuable now? Which ones have you tried and failed/succeeded with? Asurmen seems incredibly hard with his warlord trait shenanigans

Foot or Mech?

That makes a big difference on how good each lord can be.

Well, I think they are still too expensive to be useful.
I used to run Fuegan in my foot Council to keep it alive. He got the hits but with fortune were rather resilient. Fortune is now hard to get.
Karandras can outflank or infiltrate. But outflankers can no longer charge upon arrival.
Maugan Ra is a good one with his special rules, but his impact is generally too low to justify him.

Maugen Ra and Jain Zarr are the only lords I think that would be particularly difficult to run.

Fuegan and asurmen are really the only PL i would be taking for semi-competitive play. Karandras has some potential, but is so expensive for just a beatstick IC with no inv.

Asurmen has a pretty decent shot of getting that reroll 1s on save, making him a force to deal with. He also is now Str 5 in melee so he actually has some ability to fight MCs or other high T creatures. Still too expensive, but can act as a pseudo support MQ with his warlord traits and still be a melee HQ.

Fuegan still has use in harlequin blobs. He protects the harlequins if the veil fails to cast, and they protect him from being shot at too much.

I think of Phoenix Lords like I think of Lysander and to some extent Draigo.

Not really worth it unless you just want to wreck some serious face in your next game. The face wrecking isn't always guaranteed...but the chances are good enough to justify it.

So go forth and wreck face...with gusto.

Yah except that Lysander and Draigo have 3+ invul saves.. Hard to compare them to phoenix lords which for the most part are still garbage.

I really wish they would have made even a minor effort to make them playable.

 Kirasu wrote:
Yah except that Lysander and Draigo have 3+ invul saves.. Hard to compare them to phoenix lords which for the most part are still garbage.

I really wish they would have made even a minor effort to make them playable.

Didn't you hear? 2+ is the new invulnerable save.

Also, Asurman and Baharroth have a 4+ invulnerable, Feugan has FnP, Jain Zarr has Disarming Strike and Karandras kills you first.

They're pretty durable.

Kandarus has I 1 with power claw... Not kill you fist

ninjafiredragon wrote:
Kandarus has I 1 with power claw... Not kill you fist

He strikes in normal I order.

His power claw his at initiative.

I have been thinking about Baha to lead an allied beast pack. He gives hit and run as well as the critical fearless. He has a pretty solid damage output and the beast pack greatly benefits from bind as well as no speed penalty. Losing stealth is a problem and might require a shift to 10 khymarea and 8 razor wings

My next project once Wraithwall is done

-S

Maugan ra is really easy to use. and is worth his 5 Str 6 shots. at least in a ranged superiority list. I cant find another 200 points of models that gets me 5 str 6 BS 7 shots. his lack of invul and low end CC standards by Melee HQ ability stands don't bother me because I never have to use it.

But each play style changes your decisions good luck

Maugen Ra is not terrible in CC, especially for a ranged PL. He has 5 S6 AP3 attacks on the charge that hit at I7. That is not bad by any means and is far better than most SM Chapter Masters.

Ra is also as or more expensive than most chapter masters and lacks an inv. Again, hes AP3, which is a killer for a ~200 point character. 5 Str 6 rending shots is not an impressive weapon for 200 points. Ra is a generalist in an army that is built on specialists. He has no squad to run with well and none of his abilities he confers to his squad are useful for considering him a force multiplier. He serves no purpose that specialists for either ranged or melee dont do much, much better. If you want 5 str 6 rending shots, take a single war walker for less than 1/3 his cost and you even get a 6th shot. Grab 3 and still be under his point value.

Why would you take baharoth in a beast pack over Baron. Both give hit and run, but baron gives stealth, has a shadowfield, and is 105 points.

 zephoid wrote:
Ra is also as or more expensive than most chapter masters and lacks an inv. Again, hes AP3, which is a killer for a ~200 point character. 5 Str 6 rending shots is not an impressive weapon for 200 points. Ra is a generalist in an army that is built on specialists. He has no squad to run with well and none of his abilities he confers to his squad are useful for considering him a force multiplier. He serves no purpose that specialists for either ranged or melee dont do much, much better. If you want 5 str 6 rending shots, take a single war walker for less than 1/3 his cost and you even get a 6th shot. Grab 3 and still be under his point value.

True, but he can actually jive with Rangers. He won't be using his cover save much due to his 2+ save, but Rangers are the only other units that have a weapon with a 36" range with Rending. That's basically what Maugan Ra is, a terminator with I7. Maugan is only good against other units in challenges (against MEQ or GEQ), which makes the non-invuln pointless if he strips you of wounds before you can hit back.

I'm not saying Maugan Ra is amazing, but he is part Illic and part Khandras. Not as good as either, but still a decent beatstick, especially if he's surrounded by a unit that has decent shooting.

I love the Baron but fearless takes the beast pack to the next level. It is so strong people are putting Vect in the pack. Baha s 2+4++ gives a bit more speed and gives more resiliency with eternal warrior.

-S

ninjafiredragon wrote:
Kandarus has I 1 with power claw... Not kill you fist

Just re read the scorpions claw, sorry everybody.

You can throw an invuln save on PL's like Jain Zar or Karandras by putting them in a squad of dire avengers with a shimmershield exarch. That exarch can then take pretty much any combination of their defensive exarch powers and accept challenges while the PL eats up the enemy squad.

And if you take fuegan as your warlord he has split fire, so you can stick him with the DA with shimmer shield, and bust up tanks whil the DA shoot up other stuff.

lokust2501 wrote:
You can throw an invuln save on PL's like Jain Zar or Karandras by putting them in a squad of dire avengers with a shimmershield exarch. That exarch can then take pretty much any combination of their defensive exarch powers and accept challenges while the PL eats up the enemy squad.

I don't have my codex on hand hand have work soon, but can PL join non-aligned aspect squads now?

 acekevin8412 wrote:

lokust2501 wrote:
You can throw an invuln save on PL's like Jain Zar or Karandras by putting them in a squad of dire avengers with a shimmershield exarch. That exarch can then take pretty much any combination of their defensive exarch powers and accept challenges while the PL eats up the enemy squad.

I don't have my codex on hand hand have work soon, but can PL join non-aligned aspect squads now?

There is no longer anything that says they can't. You could throw Asurman with some Scorps or Baharroth with Reapers or whatever odd combination you want.

 acekevin8412 wrote:

lokust2501 wrote:
You can throw an invuln save on PL's like Jain Zar or Karandras by putting them in a squad of dire avengers with a shimmershield exarch. That exarch can then take pretty much any combination of their defensive exarch powers and accept challenges while the PL eats up the enemy squad.

I don't have my codex on hand hand have work soon, but can PL join non-aligned aspect squads now?

Yep they changed it so that PLs can run with anybody.

On the subject of Maugan Ra, he can join Wraithblades for some ranged firepower before a charge or Wraithguard for majority T6. He can join Dire Avengers for lots of AP2 wounds, or Harlequins as a better Death Jester.

Nah, give Asurman counter-attack to Wraithblades...awesome!

Ok, it's been said but, let me double check...

I can run Baharroth with a BeastPack and, it gets Fearless?

This is critical to me as I had a random Baharroth model lying in my junk bin...

Yes. You can run him with beast packs and give them Fearless.