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Just curious. How competitive is the flying circus. I just started collecting Daemons and the flying circus was the cheapest way for me to get into this army, I already have about 5k worth of CSM heldrakes and the like yada yada. I'm wondering if I took the best route with Daemons. I want this army solely for being competitive. Chaos Space Marines is my fun army.

Just curious. How competitive is the flying circus. I just started collecting Daemons and the flying circus was the cheapest way for me to get into this army, I already have about 5k worth of CSM heldrakes and the like yada yada. I'm wondering if I took the best route with Daemons. I want this army solely for being competitive. Chaos Space Marines is my fun army.

The flying circus is an army of extremes. It usually wins big or loses big. It matches up well or incredibly poorly. The random elements either burn you and lose the game quickly, or work to cause the swift downfall of opponents.

I think the main problems you will encounter are well-built Tau and Serpent spam Eldar. Anti-air can easily obliterate those expensive MCs. Three Riptides and three Skyrays are bad news (and this combo isn't that uncommon). Even against armies with average anti-air/shooting, a few bad grounding checks can ruin your day. Finally, the Warp Storm table can break you at the wrong time.

On the flip side, flying Daemons do a great job versus MEQ and IG. I have been running an Eldar/Tau list with plenty of deadly elements for flying Daemons, yet have still had trouble with them when my opponent stubbornly makes ground check after ground check, or when the Warp Storm viciously takes out my Farseer turn one.

The short answer to your question is, kinda. In a 6-8 round event, I have trouble believing that flying Daemons will win out. I believe this will only get worse, as more and more Tau players get their armies together. However, in a three round event, I could see (and have seen) Daemons win big.

I'm gonna guess that flying circuses don't want to see riptides and broadsides. Just a guess.

Martel732 wrote:
I'm gonna guess that flying circuses don't want to see riptides and broadsides. Just a guess.

Tau in general is what they don't want to see. But at the same time Tau does not want to see deamons because Tau's ap2 weapons hate invul saves and once a lord of change or a demon prince hit a unit they pretty much start wiping the table. Unless you have multiple kroot to bubble wrap with you may be in trouble.

The problem with daemons is they are not consistent. There will be games where every turn your lord of change will have a 2++ and all your demon princes make it into the assault and just wipe the board clean. There are other games where you get -1 to your invul save multiple turns in a row and every shot grounds you.

 lambsandlions wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I'm gonna guess that flying circuses don't want to see riptides and broadsides. Just a guess.

Tau in general is what they don't want to see. But at the same time Tau does not want to see deamons because Tau's ap2 weapons hate invul saves and once a lord of change or a demon prince hit a unit they pretty much start wiping the table. Unless you have multiple kroot to bubble wrap with you may be in trouble.

The problem with daemons is they are not consistent. There will be games where every turn your lord of change will have a 2++ and all your demon princes make it into the assault and just wipe the board clean. There are other games where you get -1 to your invul save multiple turns in a row and every shot grounds you.

I don't agree with this. Fateweaver adds a lot of consistency to the Army, you can build a good tournament Army around him. I think that was proven at Wargamescon

I think in an army like the flying circus Fateweaver is a key ingredient. I also like a Keeper of Secrets for the Telepathy buffs and to unlock the Slaanesh Prince which is pretty baller with a Lash of Despair.

There will be some games that are very difficult - but a lot depends on terrain. If there is a large central piece of it, then there is a really good chance for the MC's to survive to make it into assault with gunline armies.

 calypso2ts wrote:
I think in an army like the flying circus Fateweaver is a key ingredient. I also like a Keeper of Secrets for the Telepathy buffs and to unlock the Slaanesh Prince which is pretty baller with a Lash of Despair.

There will be some games that are very difficult - but a lot depends on terrain. If there is a large central piece of it, then there is a really good chance for the MC's to survive to make it into assault with gunline armies.

Honestly I think Tau is one of the easier matchups. But I run a modified Fateweaver circus (full pack of Hounds that I buff to the gills), and we also play with a good amount of terain, that obviously helps. But 20 Hounds with a 3++ can eat a terrifying amount of firepower (216 Firewarrior shots, assuming they all have enough marker ilght support for BS5). That's usually enough of a distraction to get the FMCs into position, and then Fateweaver can become invincible and sit right in front of them and eat a squad a turn.

I think a Flying Circus list is good, not a tournament winner, barring good matchups. It is just too many points invested in too few units, that are way too dependent on the right rolls. Psychic powers, Warp Storm, Rewards, Grimoire... so much can go wrong potentially. In a GT, theres more chances for that to go wrong.

 jifel wrote:
I think a Flying Circus list is good, not a tournament winner, barring good matchups. It is just too many points invested in too few units, that are way too dependent on the right rolls. Psychic powers, Warp Storm, Rewards, Grimoire... so much can go wrong potentially. In a GT, theres more chances for that to go wrong.

Wargamescon, which I think qualifies as a major GT, had two Daemon armies in the top 4. One was a flying circus (A GUO, Fateweaver, and 3 DPs) and the other was basically Dog Rush (with a LoC). I would have thought a GT Daemon Army would require FW, but that is apparently not even true.

However, if you are running FW, the Warp Storm Table is not a liability, it's an asset (I think you have a 2% chance of something bad with the reroll. That's not a big deal, even in a GT). With FW, Grimoire is 8/9, no bigger risk than a lot of the risks a lot of armies run (Plasma and Ion Weapons are probably equivalent) and grounding tests are also at 8/9....so yeah, you'll lose FMCs, but sometimes units die. A good Daemon list has redundancy built into it just like any other Army.

I think that if you are asking if you can win reliably with this army, then you sir need to play a lot more games. Chaos Daemons are a top tier army and require a skilled general.

Well, I've seen those lists in our RTTs. They not really did great so far. Winning reliably is maybe a bit to far reaching. You can do well with such a list, but not more.

Check my bat rep for a ETC warm up event, attended by two of the England ETC team and a fair few very good plays. So far I am up to game 4 (of 5) and have won 3 of those games losing narrowly to a horde Nid list (again something FMC spam cannot deal with, fearless hordes).

I was running Fateweaver and yea he saved my arse to be honest!.