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Have you or do you ever use your armies for Fantasy aswell as 40k?

And secondly...

What's a good starting point for first time purchases?

Puscifer wrote:
Have you or do you ever use your armies for Fantasy aswell as 40k?

No. I don't know anybody who plays fantasy.

And secondly...

What's a good starting point for first time purchases?

2 units of Plague Bearers. Never leave home without them.

Bloodthirster. He's just awesome.

Screamers. Because they too are awesome.

If you magnetize or something to be able to switch bases Id be ok with it. Havent ever seen it done though. Usually people play one or the other. Havent seen any Fantasy Daemons players. Most people play Vampire Counts or Chaos who do play Fantasy here. There are a few 40k Daemon players but most everyone has give up on Fantasy here.

Puscifer wrote:
Have you or do you ever use your armies for Fantasy aswell as 40k?

This was one of the reasons I went with Daemons for my second (and current primary) army. In theory it sounds great, but in practice it didn't work out so well. I started the army in late 5th Ed, and the balance of the two games was such that what was great in one was meh or worse in the other, so there wasn't a ton of overlap. For example, in Fantasy in the old codex, Bloodletters were really good, but in 40k they were really bad. I was (and still am) a huge fan of Daemon Princes in 40k, but in fantasy they were competing with much better Lord units for space in the army.

Fantasy Daemons emphasized large blocks of troops, while 5th Ed daemons was a more elite army with more MCs and walkers and generally just a few minimum squads of Plaguebearers and / or Pink Horrors. I haven't read the new Fantasy Daemon codex yet, so I'm not sure what has changed.

As to how I did set my models up to play in either system, for troops I glued thin rare-earth magnets on the bottom of the bases. Then I glued small washers onto the movement trays. For other models, like my Bloodthirster I magnetized the bases, so I could swap from round to square as needed.

Puscifer wrote:
And secondly...

What's a good starting point for first time purchases?

It depends on what you want to run. If GW hadn't changed the contents of the army box I'd say it would be a solid purchase, as it had at least 10 of every troop (except Plaguebearers, which were finecast and ugly as well). Now the army box isn't that great. It's probably OK if you're set on running 40k and Fantasy though.

For a strictly 40k army, you could get up to 2k points relatively cheaply by getting a few Daemon Princes and a Greater Daemon or two, plus a couple small squads of troops.

Puscifer wrote:
Have you or do you ever use your armies for Fantasy aswell as 40k?

My reason for picking Daemons was because no one in my area played them in 40k at the time AND because I could easily swap between both game systems!
It's pretty easy to simply base your models using the 40k bases and then rank them up for Fantasy using the modular movement trays, as you can readily see the outline of the square bases on them.
Some of the larger gribblies though need some active work to multi-base them. Ie: Bloodcrushers in 40k use the large 60mm round base, but then use an entirely different base in Fantasy. (the new monstrous cav base to be exact) Best thing to do for these units is to base them on the Fantasy base, then build-up a 'slot' for them to sit in on the relevant 40k base.

Puscifer wrote:
And secondly...

What's a good starting point for first time purchases?

For 40k, the more efficient Troops options are either Plaguebearers or Pink Horrors who make excellent objective campers.
If you want Bloodletters or Daemonettes, you really need big units of them as being close combat only generally makes them bolter bait for the first few turns. Another option for them is to simply Deep Strike them into play using Icons from units like Bloodcrushers/Seekers/Plaguedrones to remove/reduce the scatter roll.

Heralds are amazing force multipliers. They can make otherwise 'meh' or just average units like Pink Horrors or Seekers of Slaanesh for example and turn them into real monsters through their combination of Loci abilities, Gifts & psychic powers.

The monstrous stuff overall while generally expensive is still pretty angry. A Bloodthirster for example doesn't need any additional pts sunk into it since it comes reasonably well kitted-out, while a Lord of Change w/Mastery Lv3 + Greater & Lesser rewards is a seriously well rounded support player.
Princes are wild cards overall can be tailored to fit pretty much any role. Slaaneshii Princes for example are anti-air units with Wings + Lash of Despair gift, giving them 2D6/S6 shots each shooting phase at an enemy flier. Meanwhile, a Tzeentch Prince w/Biomancy + 2x Greater gifts is a complete beatstick that become nigh-on unkillable if you hit him with the Grimorie of True Names. (ie: it's possible to give him a 2++/re-roll 1's save! )

The medium stuff overall ranges from okay to auto-include, but like all of our Troops options, they only become truly stellar with the addition of Heralds and their Loci buffs...
For example, Bloodcrushers on their own are pretty 'meh' as while they'll rape MEQ's, they suffer from being multi-wound T4/5++ units that will draw a lot of enemy attention. Add-in Karanak however, and now they can Outflank! Flesh Hounds are similar as well - they're a good unit, but can't reliably crack MEQ/TEQ's and S8 just eats them. Add-in a Jugger mounted Herald who can take a cheap ap2 weapon that swings in initiative order and is T5 for tanking those incoming S8 hits and suddenly Hounds are one of the best things in entire codex!



As for Fantasy... Well, Daemons really aren't competitive at all unless you bring on of our few cookie-cutter power builds...
Combine overall lackluster & generally overcosted units with some of the outright worst army-specific mechanics currently in the game, and you end up simply being frustrated more often than not... (I haven't had a single game yet where the Riegn of Comedy table didn't 100% screw over either myself or my opponent)

Oh, and High Elves will simply rape you silly as not only are they generally as good as or better than you in combat, but they have instant access to the most obnoxious magic item in the entire game currently which will make an entire unit of elite elves unkillable for Daemons (and any characters in the unit as well.)

So...

The good stuff is:

HQ

Skarbrand - uber buffs to cc units.
GUO - Toughest unit in game.
Lord Of Change - Can be better than a thirster and cast spells.
Keeper of Secrets - Is actually not bad. Lots of attacks and works well against Eldar.

Heralds - depends on what your troops are. Tzeentch Heralds make Horrors really good.

Elites

Beasts of Nurgle - lots of attacks and tough as old boots.

Troops

Horrors - can nuke a unit a turn when taken in large numbers. The fnp isn't a huge issue cuz whatever you shoot at is probably dead already.

PB - you can use a massive amount of them in mono Nurgle to good effect. Goid objective taker.

Fast Attack

Those shark things ain't bad. Otherwise a duff section for CD.

HS

Soul Grinder - gotta take it. He can really put the hurt out.

Sorry, but you got somethng wrong.
FA is one of our best sections, if only because of seekers and hounds.

Screamers really aren't too good, they got nerfed hard.

Other than Seekers and Hounds, the rest in FA goes between 'ok' and 'wtf would you take this' (Furies and Hellflayers)

I have to say, my friend plays mono nurgle and they are just.. God they're hard to kill. 2 turns of blasting 1000pts of Guard into a GUC, and it DID NOT DIE. IT JUST WOULDN'T DIE. Also, why has nobody mentioned Flesh Hounds? They can get into combat in turn 1 and basically muller anything therein, and they can also be used to tarpit big beasties like Riptides or ranged Wraithknights before they can get any shots off ;D

I mentioned them briefly in the post above you, saying they are one of the best units in the codex (well, FA slot, but still)

Also, I play mono-Slaanesh and I've only lost 2 games, the first of which I almost won (6 VP vs 8 VP) against necrons and the second I got tabled by Tau, but that game was a 500 point game and All Assault vs all Shooting w/ overwatch shenanigans is a bad matchup.

So many people overlook Slaanesh Heralds. Seriously, these guys are like Assassins w/ Exalted Loci and Etherblade (not nessessary, but makes them even killy-er)
Forces a challenge on the enemy character of choice, hit them with 4(5 on the charge) or 5(6 on the charge)(w/ steed) AP 2 attacks @ I7 with re-rolls to hit = death.

Always a fun tactic... and usually pays of killing characters that cost more than her.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
I mentioned them briefly in the post above you, saying they are one of the best units in the codex (well, FA slot, but still)

Also, I play mono-Slaanesh and I've only lost 2 games, the first of which I almost won (6 VP vs 8 VP) against necrons and the second I got tabled by Tau, but that game was a 500 point game and All Assault vs all Shooting w/ overwatch shenanigans is a bad matchup.

So many people overlook Slaanesh Heralds. Seriously, these guys are like Assassins w/ Exalted Loci and Etherblade (not nessessary, but makes them even killy-er)
Forces a challenge on the enemy character of choice, hit them with 4(5 on the charge) or 5(6 on the charge)(w/ steed) AP 2 attacks @ I7 with re-rolls to hit = death.

Always a fun tactic... and usually pays of killing characters that cost more than her.

Couldn't agree more. So many people sell Daemonettes and Slaaneshi Heralds short, until they watch a 20-strong squad completely decimate everything it gets ahold of. To this day, Daemonettes are the ONLY thing I've seen completely destroy a Necron Silver Tide block, and I've done it twice. You definitely have to play aggressive to get any results though.

Flying Cirus is a good and cheap(er) way to start.
I bought a box of Plauge Drones and turned it into 2Deamon Princes and 2 Blight Drones and 1DP box can give you 2-3 DP,s depending on how much green stuff and bits you use.
Then just grab a box of fantasy zombies and turn them into around 20-40 plauge bearers and you're good to go.
Count 1 or 2 of the DP's as a GUO (or convert them into a GUO) and you got a good 1500-2000p list


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just don't buy the offical GUO since there is nothing "great" about it (Its sooooooo tiny).

 salix_fatuus wrote:
Flying Cirus is a good and cheap(er) way to start.
I bought a box of Plauge Drones and turned it into 2Deamon Princes...

Wouldn't it be cheaper just to buy 2 DPs?

and 2 Blight Drones and 1DP box can give you 2-3 DP,s depending on how much green stuff and bits you use.

Again... very expensive.

Then just grab a box of fantasy zombies and turn them into around 20-40 plauge bearers and you're good to go.

I... wouldn't allow that. That's just me. I'd let you use them as allied Plague Zombies but the WHFB Zombies are not the right size of look for Plague Bearers.

Count 1 or 2 of the DP's as a GUO (or convert them into a GUO) and you got a good 1500-2000p list

Non GUO are just Daemon Princes. Buy the real deal.

Just don't buy the offical GUO since there is nothing "great" about it (Its sooooooo tiny).

GUO is an awesome model. I'll be painting my second one soon. They may be small but that's a bonus.

LOS and all that.

 DeffDred wrote:

 salix_fatuus wrote:
Then just grab a box of fantasy zombies and turn them into around 20-40 plauge bearers and you're good to go.

I... wouldn't allow that. That's just me. I'd let you use them as allied Plague Zombies but the WHFB Zombies are not the right size of look for Plague Bearers.

Count 1 or 2 of the DP's as a GUO (or convert them into a GUO) and you got a good 1500-2000p list

Non GUO are just Daemon Princes. Buy the real deal.

Just don't buy the offical GUO since there is nothing "great" about it (Its sooooooo tiny).

GUO is an awesome model. I'll be painting my second one soon. They may be small but that's a bonus.

LOS and all that.

With enough conversion, all of these should be options. Zombies go to a single eye with a horn, clothing is altered enough to be skinflaps? Totally acceptable. It sounds like he likes converting stuff a lot-don't deny just on words, at least see the product first. And everyone has their own opinion about each model-he dislikes the size of the GUO, you love it. Personal taste. I was actually taking ghouls with GS'd horns and the bones they held turned into plague swords at first, before I discovered the Bloodletter trick that was posted on here for my Plaguebearers when they were those God-awful metal ones. Nobody ever complained at conversions.

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:

 salix_fatuus wrote:
Then just grab a box of fantasy zombies and turn them into around 20-40 plauge bearers and you're good to go.

I... wouldn't allow that. That's just me. I'd let you use them as allied Plague Zombies but the WHFB Zombies are not the right size of look for Plague Bearers.

Count 1 or 2 of the DP's as a GUO (or convert them into a GUO) and you got a good 1500-2000p list

Non GUO are just Daemon Princes. Buy the real deal.

Just don't buy the offical GUO since there is nothing "great" about it (Its sooooooo tiny).

GUO is an awesome model. I'll be painting my second one soon. They may be small but that's a bonus.

LOS and all that.

With enough conversion, all of these should be options. Zombies go to a single eye with a horn, clothing is altered enough to be skinflaps? Totally acceptable. It sounds like he likes converting stuff a lot-don't deny just on words, at least see the product first. And everyone has their own opinion about each model-he dislikes the size of the GUO, you love it. Personal taste. I was actually taking ghouls with GS'd horns and the bones they held turned into plague swords at first, before I discovered the Bloodletter trick that was posted on here for my Plaguebearers when they were those God-awful metal ones. Nobody ever complained at conversions.

I was comparing the suggestions with what the OP asked.

He wanted first time purchases not major sculpting projects.

"Totally Acceptable" is not the same as "Reasonably Acceptable". Should anyone deny it than it is not total.

I never claimed to LOVE the SIZE of the GUO.

"God-awful metal ones" Did you see what you did there?

Nobody ever complained about conversions?