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1500 Points, Dark Eldar Primary, Eldar Secondary

Baron Sathonyx (Warlord)
Spiritseer (Iyanden Supplement)

8 Hellions w/ Helliarch w/ Stun Claw
2 x 5 Wraithguard w/ Cannons in WS (Scatter, Cannon, Holo)
9 Warriors w/ Blaster in Raider (NS, FF)
2 x 5 Wyches w/ Haywire in Venoms (Extra SpCannon, NS)

Nightspinner w/ Spirit Stones

I've been looking into the potential of DE for some time now, and with the addition of the new Eldar dex, I've decided to take the plunge into EldarDeldar-dom. Thus, I'm a bit new to both these factions, so if anyone more experienced with them could give advice, it would be much appreciated!

Some of my decision making thoughts:
Baron just feels like a great HQ to me -- the +1 to going first roll really seems like a big benefit, and all for 10 points more than a Venomblade/Shadowfield Archon, and he still gets a Shadowfield. I know a lot of people like running him with some kind of deathstar, but I'm not sold on either Harlequins or Beast Packs (not to mention the money cost of beasts). Jetseer councils also are great, but that needs Eldar main, and I like what you get with DE main instead of normal Eldar.

Farseers are really great as DE allies, but I'm trying to take Wraithguard troops, and thus I need the Spiritseer, who hasn't done bad for me as a GK ally either.

I'm currently going with Hellions as the starting Baron escort -- I know a lot of people don't like their fragility. However I'm interested in their variability at both range and CC, alongside the possibilities of the stun claw. I'm interested in hearing what else people run Baron with, that isn't one of the standard deathstars. I've thought of Scourges, but they're a bit stuck firing long range.

The single warrior Raider + 2 Venoms (with suicide Wyches) is partially for variability, but also because it's probably the easiest thing to build from the battle force...


So that's my list, as I'm starting to build it. Criticism/Advice/Friendly Mockery welcome!

There is a reason people run the baron with a death star if some kind. Because that is how you can get the most use out of him.

That hellion unit is about 150pts, a small beast master unit of 3 beastmasters with 4 razorwing flocks and 5 khymerae is 153pts. Hellion unit has 8 wounds, beastmasters have 28 (!). Hellions have 5+ armour save, beasts have 4++'s up front, but aside from that little of worth. On the charge hellions get 17 attacks + hammer of wrath while beasts get 46 (!), 20 of which are rending. Hellions have better shooting while beasts are better to buff psychically

There is *inventive* ways to get around the pricing. Vampire counts dire wolves,chaos war hounds or kroot hounds all make good khymerae if painted suitably. I have seen people make razorwings out of vampire count Bat swarms or for an extra pound the much better looking hobbit giant bats for £16 for 2. If you don't have to use GW pieces other models have great models. I will have a link to my favourite at the bottom.

Aside from trying to sell you on a beastpack I will get to the rest of the army. Eldar attachment looks fine, I much prefer the fire prism to the night spinner because of the variability of the firing modes. But if that's your fetish, that's fine you can make it up else where. Drop the blaster on the warriors, its never worth it. If you are in blaster range you are wasting NS and if you are optimising NS blaster wont be in range. IF you shoot the blaster at a vehicle all the splinter fire is wasted. Drop blaster, get slinter racks and call it a day on them. I don't believe that Venoms need nightshields. They have a 36 inch range IF you are shooting correctly with them, NS's wont help against anything. Or if you are using to drop suicide haywire wyches of then you are too close to the enemy for NS's to matter.

By Lyanden supplement do you mean you are using that supplement instead of codex? If so then make room for that spear thingy, that is awesome. I'd also run the spiritseer with the beastpack *there is a nack for keeping him in consistency, its easy to learn* so they can get all those amazing buffs. But personally I wouldn't play the Lyanden supplement because conceal is just SOO good. Stick conceal on Beastpack with barons stealth and laugh! Apart from that, good luck!


*http://www.reapermini.com/Miniatures/bird/latest/03479*

Thanks for the help!

The recommendations you're making lead me somewhat towards this?

Baron
Spiritseer (no Iyanden, going with Beasts)

3 Beastmasters, 5 Khymerae, 4 Razorwings
10 Warriors in Raider (NS/FF/Splinter Racks)
2 x 5 Wyches w/ Haywire in Venom (SpCannon)
2 x 5 Wraithguard w/ Cannons in WS (Scatter/SHC/Holo)
Nightspinner w/ SS

This actually comes out to exactly 1496 points, basically right on the money. I really like Night shields, they've given me lots of trouble playing against DE, but yeah, on suicide wych squads it's not exactly that useful. If i was using warriors instead, would NS be useful, or are Venoms just too squishy to be worth putting those points into them? I was slightly worried about having only one lance weapon left in the army (the raider), but with suicide wyches and S10 wraithcannons, AV14 is probably not one of the army's weak points, at least from close range. The S6 shooting from the serpents, and the S8 from the Nightspinner (monofilament rule makes it S8 against stuff with less than I4, or with no I, like vehicles) should probably be enough against light armor.

Thanks for the suggestions for army changes, as well as the ways to convert up Beast Packs. Looking at Dire Wolves right now, and maybe Bat Swarms depending on whether I can stand their looks (currently play in a GW store, so want to keep GW for now). However, are the 5 Khymerae worth it if both Baron and the Spiritseer are going in the unit? With at least 4+ cover from Conceal+Baron+natural cover, is there any reason not to, say, drop 3 Khymerae for a Clawed Fiend (going exactly to 1500) or for more Razorwing Flocks? I guess in melee the Khymerae 4++ is better though, and it's cheaper money-wise to have more Khymerae from a 10 wolf box. I already have a Hellion kit, so I can just use three of them as counts-as Beastmasters.

I've already started painting my current Eldar in Iyanden, but I still can probably just use the regular codex w/o the supplement if I feel like it. I like the potential for using multiple Spiritseers in the army, however if I'm just using one, then yeah it probably doesn't make too much sense. What's the way to keep the spiritseer in coherency with the Beastpack? Just start stringing them out as the spiritseer starts falling behind? Or is it just something that comes with experience?

Thanks once again!

The Khymerae are important because they grant you a save against ignore cover stuff and when cover isn't available. They also pack a massive punch in combat for a single model with 4 strength 4 attacks at I6. Also don't tank with the baron unless you NEED to. I see loads of people try tank with the baron then have him die to bad dice, because he is only as durable as a terminator with a guardsmen strapped to his back. Also the clawed fiend is Terrabad, because the unit uses majority toughness. So he is only T3 and is really expensive, for him you could have 2 razorwings, I know which I'd rather have.

The way to keep the Spiritseer in consistency is stringing along with him running in the movement phase. He would be strung with the baron, because both want to be in the back of the group. But that is a good list. Sorry for making you buy another unit and all :S But I just think hellions are that bad. your paying so much for 8 wounds with no save worth mentioning. And only 2 Str4 attacks in combat.

Well, at the end of the day you will recognize that Wraithguard is overpriced for what it can achieve. Fire Dragons are cheaper and can also get the job done.

ALEXisAWESOME wrote:The Khymerae are important because they grant you a save against ignore cover stuff and when cover isn't available. They also pack a massive punch in combat for a single model with 4 strength 4 attacks at I6. Also don't tank with the baron unless you NEED to. I see loads of people try tank with the baron then have him die to bad dice, because he is only as durable as a terminator with a guardsmen strapped to his back. Also the clawed fiend is Terrabad, because the unit uses majority toughness. So he is only T3 and is really expensive, for him you could have 2 razorwings, I know which I'd rather have.

The way to keep the Spiritseer in consistency is stringing along with him running in the movement phase. He would be strung with the baron, because both want to be in the back of the group. But that is a good list. Sorry for making you buy another unit and all :S But I just think hellions are that bad. your paying so much for 8 wounds with no save worth mentioning. And only 2 Str4 attacks in combat.

Got it, ah, that's why you don't see clawed fiends. Yeah I guess you also get more attacks per point from Khymerae than Clawed Fiends as well. Alrighty then.

Yeah, the Shadowfield, like any 2+ save, is best when it only has to take a few blows. I assume it works to its best in a challenge, but I'm not sure Baron actually ever wants to be in a challenge where'd he'd actually take hits to the shadowfield.

Don't worry about the Hellion warning! I've only just bought one box so far, and when I'm assembling one of them as Baron, and having 3 others be counts-as Beastmasters, it totally works out.

wuestenfux wrote:Well, at the end of the day you will recognize that Wraithguard is overpriced for what it can achieve. Fire Dragons are cheaper and can also get the job done.

You are correct that, for the job of 'killing high AV vehicles,' Fire Dragons are less expensive (145 w/ 5 Dragons + Exarch w/ Firepike and Fast Shot as opposed to the 160 of Wraithguard) and will do the job more reliably by 2d6 armor penetration. If I was taking Wraithguard as elites for the sole purpose of killing vehicles, then yeah, Fire Dragons would compete with that role.

However, I'm not taking Wraithguard to do that job. I'm taking wraithguard because they're T6 Troops with a 3+ save, enabling them to hold objectives better than most anything in the Dark Eldar Army. I'm taking them for their survivability, their S10 anti-vehicle anti-whatever wraithcannons are a bonus. Fire Dragons are half the T of Wraithguard, and can't hold objectives (aren't really expected to either, suicide squads). Note that I also have Haywire Wych squads, comparable to Fire Dragons in their need to get close to an enemy vehicle to blow it up, but can almost always succeed when they do get near.

Yes, Fire Dragons 'get the job done' more reliably and slightly cheaper than Wraithguard, but only if that job is 'blow up vehicles,' not if that job is 'control objectives.'

I might not be familiar enough with the new Eldar dex, but won't you need an IC with those wraithguard?

Nope, the Wraithsight from the old Codex is completely gone. The 'slowness' of Wraithguard/Wraithblades is now that they don't have Fleet or Battle Focus (and they get Battle Focus back if you use the Iyanden Primaris).