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Well, a mech Eldar army should mostly consider of units that render bolters useless.

- A Farseer has some great powers, guide and prescience by default which are decent in a shooty army. But if the Farseer is in a tank, only the unit inside or the tank can be buffed. Moreover, twinlinking and laser guiding makes those powers a bit redundant.
In particular, blessings are casted at the start of the turn and often require LOS. Thus, those powers are not applicable to the Farseer when she's inside the tank or disembarking. On the other hand, psychic shriek is a witch fire which will be casted in the shooting phase and is applicable when disembarking.
An alternative would be to mount the Farseer on a jetbike leading a GJB squad. But I'll not discuss this situation.

- A Spiritseer makes Wraithguard troops, but generally I wouldn't run Wraithguard. On the other hand, Runes of Battle provides some decent buffs and debuffs. Moreover, the blessings only buff the unit the Spiritseer is with and so its not a matter of timing (disembarking).

- An Autarch can buff your reserve rolls just in case you're running flyers or outflankers. Another option is to let her go with an Aspect squad in a Serpent like a unit of Fire Dragons and equipping her moderately, say, in case of FDs with fusion gun and fire sable.

- Phoenix Lords are too pricey. For each of them, you'll (almost) get another unit of 5 DA in a Serpent.

Thoughts?

A friend of mine runs an insanely effective "mech" style army and has been cleaning house against everyone he faces, for his HQ he runs a guy he likes to call the "D**KTaurch:

-Autaurch
*w/ Jetbike, Mantle of the Laughing God, Scorpion Claw, Banshee Mask, Fusion Gun

For 183pts. and buffing reserve rolls he is pretty damn nasty!

Spiritseer for budget, and if you do run Wraithguard at all you might as well take him as your HQ.

Farseer on his own is not too expensive, and is ok. I would probably take this one if not running any Wraithguard/blade units.

A Phoenix Lord is actually decent. They can give a CC edge to a shooting unit like DA, and make them Fearless, and Fuegan has a decent gun and split fire so he can even pop vehicles without hindering the rest of his squad.

Autarch is ok for the +/- reserves for mech, but he doesn't really add too much to the squads he joins compared with a Farseer or Spiritseer. They can't add as much to an Aspect Squad as a Phoenix Lord, but is a bit cheaper (but the shock power of a Phoenix Lord can outweigh this).

Note with an Autarch, the web jump generator gives him Relentless so he can travel with a mechanised unit (taking up two spaces in the transport as he's bulky) but can shoot a Reaper Launcher without affecting the unit's battle focus and at full BS.

gmaleron wrote:A friend of mine runs an insanely effective "mech" style army and has been cleaning house against everyone he faces, for his HQ he runs a guy he likes to call the "D**KTaurch:

-Autaurch
*w/ Jetbike, Mantle of the Laughing God, Scorpion Claw, Banshee Mask, Fusion Gun

For 183pts. and buffing reserve rolls he is pretty damn nasty!

This is flat out illegal. The autarch has no option for a scorpion claw

Daba wrote:Note with an Autarch, the web jump generator gives him Relentless so he can travel with a mechanised unit (taking up two spaces in the transport as he's bulky) but can shoot a Reaper Launcher without affecting the unit's battle focus and at full BS.

Again, illegal. Jet infantry may not embark transports...

I think you need to define your ideal 'Mech Eldar' list.

I'm still finding Eldrad the best fit. Warlord trait you want, makes you even stronger with first turn, and even if you want to keep him vehicle bound for the first turns you can lead strong on Divination. Let's see how it applies.

1. Foreboding - Full overwatch and counterattack is perfect for almost any disembark and shoot-them-in-the-face unit
2. Forewarning - Invulnerables for vehicles, useful in for all the ignores cover attacks the game is flush with (Vector Strike), CC, and obviously works on transported squads too.
3. Misfortune - Can't cast from the vehicle, but it's one of the most powerful spells in the game and it can easily make it's impact felt from turn 3 or 4 onwards. Perfect with all the Low AP High strength weaponry in Mech Eldar.
4. Perfect Timing - probably the least useful roll, but can have it's moments. Good counterspell to a few models and works nicely with the Bladestorm rule, Fire Dragons, etc.
5. Precognition - Excellent on a model with one of the best weapons and invulnerable saves in the game that suffers from low attacks.
6. Scrier's Gaze - Invaluable for Crimson Hunters or allied fliers,maybe outflanking Walkers I guess.

4th roll can be Telepathy for Puppet/Invis/Shriek.

I actually like a farseer on bike with the mantle and a singing spear. Great utility HQ that can keep up with the vehicles and is very durable

Right now in my mechanised force I'm playing a little bit with this thing:

-Spiritseer
-10 Fire Dragons w/ Exarch w/ Iron Resolve
-Wave Serpent w/ Scatter Laser and Holo-fields

I only had 2 games so far with this thing and both granted me lots of fun and a surprise on my enemy's face.
Still I wouldn't bring that to a tournament.

 Massaen wrote:

Daba wrote:Note with an Autarch, the web jump generator gives him Relentless so he can travel with a mechanised unit (taking up two spaces in the transport as he's bulky) but can shoot a Reaper Launcher without affecting the unit's battle focus and at full BS.

Again, illegal. Jet infantry may not embark transports...

Yeah, I just noticed that in the main rulebook.

It makes me wonder why they get the 'bulky' rule as it's the only thing it effects.

Weird I know... Apocalypse would be the only situation...

Autarch w laser lance on jetbike with mantle. Hide him behind your WS as you move up to protect him against cover-denying weapons. Then simply jump out turn 2-3 and assault something thats tying to close on your ws.

Well, I'm interested to see what kind of powers are useful for units in a mech army.
Runes of battle have as target either the unit of the Spiritseer or a friendly/unfriendly unit within some range requiring LOS.
If the Spiritseer is buffed by a blessing, the power is in effect when he disembarks: conceal, protect, enhance, quicken, empower. But for small DA squads some of these powers are a waste. The witch fire destructor provides a heavy flamer which is great especially when she's with a WG unit.

I had the same dilemma, and a jetseer leading jetbike sq seems the best fit to me - no restrictions on casting unlike in a serpent & speed to get wherever his powers are needed.
Hope for fortune to make them more durable.
Also as the bike gives an armour & cover save I figured it could enable you to use the spirit stone artefact that reduces the cost of powers...

The trouble with mechdar is, if you're going to take objectives, you need to get out. If you're going to hold objectives, you need some way of making a T3 unit survivable. And of course if your transport gets shot down early then you're REALLY in trouble. The Conceal power and the shimmershield for Dire Avengers, while nice, don't tend to cut it alone if you have someone savvy enough to be concentrating most on your Troops.

You have a number of options:
1) Spiritseer. Bite the bullet and make those T3 troops T6 AND with a 3+ save. The best option in my opinion.
2) Autarch. Loads and loads of Troops - 5 or 6 units in Wave Serpents, and delay them as long as you can before making a late-game push. Effective, but you need to be careful you don't let your opponent get too much board control before they arrive AND the transports themselves will take up a lot of points.
3) Phoenix Lord. Expensive, so I feel this may be least useful in your case. But having above average Toughness and armour combined with Eternal Warrior means these guys do a good job of tanking fire that would otherwise eat your Troops up. It also makes them a scarier prospect for being charged.

 Super Ready wrote:
The trouble with mechdar is, if you're going to take objectives, you need to get out. If you're going to hold objectives, you need some way of making a T3 unit survivable. And of course if your transport gets shot down early then you're REALLY in trouble. The Conceal power and the shimmershield for Dire Avengers, while nice, don't tend to cut it alone if you have someone savvy enough to be concentrating most on your Troops.

You have a number of options:
1) Spiritseer. Bite the bullet and make those T3 troops T6 AND with a 3+ save. The best option in my opinion.
2) Autarch. Loads and loads of Troops - 5 or 6 units in Wave Serpents, and delay them as long as you can before making a late-game push. Effective, but you need to be careful you don't let your opponent get too much board control before they arrive AND the transports themselves will take up a lot of points.
3) Phoenix Lord. Expensive, so I feel this may be least useful in your case. But having above average Toughness and armour combined with Eternal Warrior means these guys do a good job of tanking fire that would otherwise eat your Troops up. It also makes them a scarier prospect for being charged.

In fact, a Spiritseer can buff a unit but its just one unit.
In larger games, I tend to run one or two units of Wraithguard in Serpents. Let them disembark early in the game and add a Spiritseer to them. Then the enemy will need some time to deal with them. In the meanwhile your other Serpents can move into position causing havok.

Spiritseer is obv. a decent choice if you're going to take Wraithguard. Conceal is just too good to pass up.

Otherwise I think it depends a lot on exactly how "mech" your mech Eldar are. I've mentioned before around here that I really like adding Vaul's Wrath batteries and a Wraithknight to lists that otherwise consist mostly of Serpents. These are great units which still contribute to target saturation, and they also open up a lot of options for Farseers and Spiritseers. Artillery batteries make excellent bunkers for a support HQ, allowing a Farseer to cast blessings every single turn. Wraithknights benefit a lot more than your holofielded skimmers from Forewarning, and having one changes Renewer from a bad power to a great one. Both also benefit from Guide and Prescience; sometimes it's hard to find a good non-twin-linked gun to cast those on in a mech list.

Good points with going for toughness over hullpoints in heavy support.

Personally i run Autarch just with chainsword.
In my 2000 points list he helps Crimson Hunters to arrive in time. And in my 1500 points list, where i don't have any flyers, he just hide in unit of Fire Dragons and helps to save some points..

 D4X wrote:
Personally i run Autarch just with chainsword.
In my 2000 points list he helps Crimson Hunters to arrive in time. And in my 1500 points list, where i don't have any flyers, he just hide in unit of Fire Dragons and helps to save some points..

At 2k surely you can find the 60 odd points you need to make him into an actual threat by giving him the Mantle/Jetbike combo, particularly if you aren't running a Seer as well. And if you aren't running fliers (or other reserve based units) surely you would be better off with a Farseer or Spiritseer in lower point games. Even if all the Seer does is Guide the Dragons (or the Spiritseer gives them some other buff) they still offer more than the Autarch imo. Remember that you can always go for Telepath/Fate over Divination, as they have more shooting type powers.

I'm actually considering a Farseer with a Mantle now, in a list that runs Walkers you really want Guide/Divination (probably run a WK or something as the third Heavy) but if you are running Serpents then you don't have a nice place to put the Seer unless you take Jetbikes, which stick out a bit in an otherwise completely mech force.

At 2k surely you can find the 60 odd points you need to make him into an actual threat by giving him the Mantle/Jetbike combo, particularly if you aren't running a Seer as well. And if you aren't running fliers (or other reserve based units) surely you would be better off with a Farseer or Spiritseer in lower point games. Even if all the Seer does is Guide the Dragons (or the Spiritseer gives them some other buff) they still offer more than the Autarch imo. Remember that you can always go for Telepath/Fate over Divination, as they have more shooting type powers.

I'm actually considering a Farseer with a Mantle now, in a list that runs Walkers you really want Guide/Divination (probably run a WK or something as the third Heavy) but if you are running Serpents then you don't have a nice place to put the Seer unless you take Jetbikes, which stick out a bit in an otherwise completely mech force.

I tried Farseer, but in serpent list he can't show his full force. About Spiritseer, I don't like those "dead" fluff actualy. Jetbikes, jetbikes everythere, I don't have a model and it is just sooo mainstream. Maybe Wings+mantle, but there a lot of points imo.

For a pure mech list I think the spiritseer is the clear winner.

He is the cheapest HQ you can get so he takes the least away from your list if there is not an option that you feel you need to take.

He is fully functional when in a serpent as his powers usually effect the unit he is in. Farseers powers are limited when embarked on a transport and a CC HQ option has the problem of not having an assault transport.

Flamers and meltas gain the most from being mechanized due to their massive damage at short range. This means you really should have D-Scythe W.guard in your list. Even if this is your only Wraithguard unit, you still gain a lot from making it a troop choice.


A Farseer or autarch on a bike with MotLG would be my second choice as they are still very resistant to small arms fire, are fast enough to keep up, and wont have their abilities retricted by being embarked.

Well, after one test game with an Autarch on jetbike against Tau (see battle reports here), my bet will be a Farseer on jetbike working on her own. She's the better support character than an Autarch (no reserves in my mech lists).

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, after one test game with an Autarch on jetbike against Tau (see battle reports here), my bet will be a Farseer on jetbike working on her own. She's the better support character than an Autarch (no reserves in my mech lists).

I look forward to reading your batrep, because when discussing eldar hqs with friends, I figured an Bikeseer with the mantle would be an easy kill for Tau (or for a flying circus, with enfeeble/vector strike)

I'd go for a farseer with a mantle (till your opponants get wise and nail him with cover ignoring weapons)

Or go wraith - the spriritseer using the iyanden primaris voice of twilight. It affects all wraith units within 12" inches of the spritseer so you could cast it, get out and buff other units too,
handing out battle focus and furious charge. Also spirit mark is done at any point in the movement phase so that would work nicely with wraith too. It would involve wraith though...

I'm only going to be playing in small games (1250 and below) for the near future, but I'm planning on a Mantle Autarch on Jetbike.

He will help with outflank/reserve rolls if I choose to go that route, is very annoying, and he is a threat to most things in the game.

At 1000, I'm fitting in 3 Wave Serpents, but they all have SLs, so guide isn't as important. I'll only have min DA units inside, so again Guide isn't a big deal because they are a small unit.

I'm also planning on taking 2 units of 2 WWs. One will probably have SL/SC, the other will probably have BL/BL... depends on how much AV 13+ I run into.

Jetbike Farseer is still worth thinking about, but I don't think he's as essential for the list I'm planning. The BL WW unit is the only one that really begs for guide.

anonymou5 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, after one test game with an Autarch on jetbike against Tau (see battle reports here), my bet will be a Farseer on jetbike working on her own. She's the better support character than an Autarch (no reserves in my mech lists).

I look forward to reading your batrep, because when discussing eldar hqs with friends, I figured an Bikeseer with the mantle would be an easy kill for Tau (or for a flying circus, with enfeeble/vector strike)

Well, a Jetseer is worth taking. Her role is casting powers and staying at range. The first is quite useful if you run Fire Dragons or Wraithguard in order to reroll to hit via guide or prescience. The latter shouldn't be a problem with the additional 2D6 move the cc phase. If you put pressure on the enemy, he will have to make decisions shooting the Jetseer or a Serpent.

I agree with Wuestenflux, you'll need a highly mobile character who can keep up with the mech. I've been playing with running a list full of serpents, hawks, and spiders, and I've found that a jetseer is the best way to support a fast-moving army.

Depending on the amount of points in the game, I could see putting an assaulty PL in one and bum-rushing the opponent. Even then, you're looking at turn 3 assault, unless you can bait your opponent into popping your WS bottom of turn 1/top of 2 (which, by the way, is a tactic I've used with success to get Asurmen into combat turn 2).

Autarch, laughing god, on jet bike, fusion gun and fire saber, banshee mask. Pretty much billy badass stamped on his head. Can take on most units in boxes solo and with proper planning and positioning most tau won't be a problem.

 Homeskillet wrote:
I agree with Wuestenflux, you'll need a highly mobile character who can keep up with the mech. I've been playing with running a list full of serpents, hawks, and spiders, and I've found that a jetseer is the best way to support a fast-moving army.

Depending on the amount of points in the game, I could see putting an assaulty PL in one and bum-rushing the opponent. Even then, you're looking at turn 3 assault, unless you can bait your opponent into popping your WS bottom of turn 1/top of 2 (which, by the way, is a tactic I've used with success to get Asurmen into combat turn 2).

Well, if you run Warp Spiders, you can also take a Farseer with warp jump generator.
A PL is questionable in a mech list, maybe the fast moving Baharroth. For the same points you get 5 DAs plus a Serpent.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Homeskillet wrote:
I agree with Wuestenflux, you'll need a highly mobile character who can keep up with the mech. I've been playing with running a list full of serpents, hawks, and spiders, and I've found that a jetseer is the best way to support a fast-moving army.

Depending on the amount of points in the game, I could see putting an assaulty PL in one and bum-rushing the opponent. Even then, you're looking at turn 3 assault, unless you can bait your opponent into popping your WS bottom of turn 1/top of 2 (which, by the way, is a tactic I've used with success to get Asurmen into combat turn 2).

Well, if you run Warp Spiders, you can also take a Farseer with warp jump generator.
A PL is questionable in a mech list, maybe the fast moving Baharroth. For the same points you get 5 DAs plus a Serpent.

Unless I am missing something, the farseer does not have the option for a warp jump generator (only autarchs do).

How about a farseer with wings of faolchu and mantle of the laughing god? Expensive, yes, but he has a 2+ rerollable cover save in terrain and can run 48" a turn, making him fast enough to use his powers where they will have the most effect each turn. Plus it would be fun for denying slay the warlord to your opponent.

rohansoldier wrote:Unless I am missing something, the farseer does not have the option for a warp jump generator (only autarchs do).

How about a farseer with wings of faolchu and mantle of the laughing god? Expensive, yes, but he has a 2+ rerollable cover save in terrain and can run 48" a turn, making him fast enough to use his powers where they will have the most effect each turn. Plus it would be fun for denying slay the warlord to your opponent.

Nope, you are correct. That said, just go the jetbike and mantle as you get essentially the same movement for less points

Homeskillet wrote:I agree with Wuestenflux, you'll need a highly mobile character who can keep up with the mech. I've been playing with running a list full of serpents, hawks, and spiders, and I've found that a jetseer is the best way to support a fast-moving army.

Depending on the amount of points in the game, I could see putting an assaulty PL in one and bum-rushing the opponent. Even then, you're looking at turn 3 assault, unless you can bait your opponent into popping your WS bottom of turn 1/top of 2 (which, by the way, is a tactic I've used with success to get Asurmen into combat turn 2).

Fairly sure what you describe is not allowed.. You essentially still count as disembarking so no assault after tank is destroyed