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Got to thinking about some home brew SM chapter ideas I have and it left me with a question.

I know that Black Templars don't use Librarians at all, but would they fight alongside a chapter that did? If so what would be their thinking on it?

 WarAngel wrote:
Got to thinking about some home brew SM chapter ideas I have and it left me with a question.

I know that Black Templars don't use Librarians at all, but would they fight alongside a chapter that did? If so what would be their thinking on it?

They don't like it, but they recognize that there's really nothing they can do about it without starting a civil war. So they keep away from Psyker using chapters if they can help it.

Nope absolutely not. Says right in the codex they cant ally with any army that brings a psyker. Im sure as soon as they see the blue armor they get super heated and talk gak.

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
Nope absolutely not. Says right in the codex they cant ally with any army that brings a psyker. Im sure as soon as they see the blue armor they get super heated and talk gak.

Poor Ultramarines.

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
Nope absolutely not. Says right in the codex they cant ally with any army that brings a psyker. Im sure as soon as they see the blue armor they get super heated and talk gak.

Poor Ultramarines.

BT somehow accept there be GK and navigators, maybe they get along if you leave your witches at home...

There's some fluff in Deathwatch about how the Templars sent there spend their "free time" meditating in their cells to calm themselves down enough that they can sort of function in the same squad as a psyker. Bear in mind that the Deathwatch consists of the more seasoned Marines as well.

This probably has the most OBVIOUS answer ever but... How do they get around the galaxy without the use of a navigator?

The Dark Angels and successors have never really taken my breath away but I do enjoy their fluff sometimes. The Lion OWNS!

Magnus The Mauve wrote:
This probably has the most OBVIOUS answer ever but... How do they get around the galaxy without the use of a navigator?

The Dark Angels and successors have never really taken my breath away but I do enjoy their fluff sometimes. The Lion OWNS!

The BTs know that if they bash their navigators, the Emperor will be up and walking again before their crusades arrive on target.

Magnus The Mauve wrote:
This probably has the most OBVIOUS answer ever but... How do they get around the galaxy without the use of a navigator?

The Dark Angels and successors have never really taken my breath away but I do enjoy their fluff sometimes. The Lion OWNS!

They probably have extreme failsafes for taking the Navigator out if something goes awry. You think Navs on other ships have it bad? I bet being a BT Navigator is one of the most miserable jobs in the universe.

And are you implying they are DA successors? Nope theyre former Imp Fists.

 1hadhq wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
Nope absolutely not. Says right in the codex they cant ally with any army that brings a psyker. Im sure as soon as they see the blue armor they get super heated and talk gak.

Poor Ultramarines.

BT somehow accept there be GK and navigators, maybe they get along if you leave your witches at home...

Yep them Smurfs sure must have it rough sometimes.


So now I'm wondering what the BTs think of the Emperor? Sure he is/was their infallible leader BUT he is a Psyker.

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
You think Navs on other ships have it bad? I bet being a BT Navigator is one of the most miserable jobs in the universe.

It's really only battle psykers that the templars can avoid using.

The Emperor's enemies can be slain with bolter and sword but without Astropaths and Navigators one will never find them. The Navigator's work areas and quarters are by tradition off-limits to even the captain of the ship for security reasons. No Marine Chapter is breaking that one if they want to travel in space - the different Imperial branches have ancient contracts with the Navigators, they're not slaves sent out to work. But as said, the Black Templar's won't even have to meet their Navigator. The Astropaths are servants of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica which also means off limits, and I think BT probably avoid meeting them if they can.

Stil, they will avoid psykers if they can. And you'd be bound by that limitation if using allies in a game, but in fluff things are a bit muddier. The templars will fight alongside other marines when the situation is dire enough, such as Armageddon. Hmm... I also recall they put the Black Templars in command of the fleet action in one of those Armageddon battles, which serves to keep them far from any librarians while also being both a necessary job and something they're good at.

BT are sons of Dorn so its Duty above all else.

Their ancestors marched along him, they stood at the gates of Terra, they know the difference between a sanctioned use of dangerous powers and the foolishness of the arch enemy.

The edict of nikaea didn't forbid navigators. So theyre 'acceptable'. The GK are created at his wish, BT respect this.
Its a question of chain of command.
If the Emperor himself lifted the ban on Librarians, they would get along somehow.
But did he?

Spetulhu wrote:
Hmm... I also recall they put the Black Templars in command of the fleet action in one of those Armageddon battles, which serves to keep them far from any librarians while also being both a necessary job and something they're good at.

Wasn't just one of the battles, it was overall command in space during Armageddon III.

So how BTs safeguard themselves against enemy psykers and other warp influence?

I have been aware of Black Templars strict policy against Librarians but I have never understood how they can survive against psykers or anything related to warp.

If I recall correctly, BT saw mutants and psykers as potentially tainted by the warp and not to be trusted. However, Navigators and Astropaths were tolerable (not liked, but tolerated) because they're both necessary and sanctioned by the emperor himself (astropaths are even soul bound to the emperor) while the Grey Knights have proven that they're free of the taint and thus can be trusted (because not one Grey Knight has ever fallen to Chaos).

They find any librarian disgusting really and although they wouldnt kill the other chapters psyker they would sure as hell protest it.

They just see any psyker as a dangerous tool not to be trusted as they can turn victory into defeat if they go bonkers from the warp.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:
Hmm... I also recall they put the Black Templars in command of the fleet action in one of those Armageddon battles, which serves to keep them far from any librarians while also being both a necessary job and something they're good at.

Wasn't just one of the battles, it was overall command in space during Armageddon III.

Well, yes... But it's commonly called the First Battle for Armageddon, then the Second and the Third. So the BT were give fleet command in one of them, and you can fill in it was the third. Sorry, I was just too lazy to look up which it was. Didn't mean it was just an engagement but the full Battle, all the fighting needed to drive back the Orks.

The Deathwatch RPG says that if you play a Black Templar and you have a librarian in your kill team, your character is constantly making will saves to not go fight the psycher. They can work up to a place of mutual respect but it pretty clearly states that the Black Templar is constantly restraining himself.

 Teras wrote:
So how BTs safeguard themselves against enemy psykers and other warp influence?

I have been aware of Black Templars strict policy against Librarians but I have never understood how they can survive against psykers or anything related to warp.

Faith and pig headed stubbornness.

The warp is powered by and reflects emotions, belief becomes real. The Templars are fervent zealots who truly believe. That faith and determination is able to ward them to some degree. The Grey Knights and other particularly pious Imperial servants also benefit from this. It's like how swords and flame weapons, being symbolically charged, do more damage to daemons than other weapons.

 rems01 wrote:

 Teras wrote:
So how BTs safeguard themselves against enemy psykers and other warp influence?

I have been aware of Black Templars strict policy against Librarians but I have never understood how they can survive against psykers or anything related to warp.

Faith and pig headed stubbornness.

That is the answer I expected.

I guess that in the future when Grey Knights run out of Sisters of Battle they can start to bathe in blood of the Black Templars.

Black Templars use psykers too anyway, they're just in denial of it.

 Melissia wrote:
Black Templars use psykers too anyway, they're just in denial of it.

To be fair, the Codex doesn't say they don't, only that they don't have Librarians.

 d3m01iti0n wrote:

Magnus The Mauve wrote:
This probably has the most OBVIOUS answer ever but... How do they get around the galaxy without the use of a navigator?

The Dark Angels and successors have never really taken my breath away but I do enjoy their fluff sometimes. The Lion OWNS!

They probably have extreme failsafes for taking the Navigator out if something goes awry. You think Navs on other ships have it bad? I bet being a BT Navigator is one of the most miserable jobs in the universe.

And are you implying they are DA successors? Nope theyre former Imp Fists.

I... Am... Such... A... Noob

 Melissia wrote:
Black Templars use psykers too anyway, they're just in denial of it.

I don't even know if they're in denial of it.

I think they hate it, but it's some sort of grimdark form of self-loathing, like how a truly Catholic priest would feel utilizing Galileo's methods for navigation after the latter had been excommunicated for heresy.

Except ten billion times more angry.

I doubt though, that if you asked them if they used navigators, they'd deny it.

Navigators aren't psykers, though, they're a specially-bred mutant that, instead of spice, used super-science to be able to do what they do and ensure that FTL travel is a viable option to the Imperium.

So now I'm wondering what the BTs think of the Emperor? Sure he is/was their infallible leader BUT he is a Psyker.

Much like the Sisterhood, the Black Templars view the God-Emperor as Humanity perfected. He was the greatest and the best, all other psykers, compared to him, are but weak and pale imitators, and are unworthy to even consider themselves "like" the Emperor.

 Psienesis wrote:
Navigators aren't psykers, though, they're a specially-bred mutant that, instead of spice, used super-science to be able to do what they do and ensure that FTL travel is a viable option to the Imperium.

So now I'm wondering what the BTs think of the Emperor? Sure he is/was their infallible leader BUT he is a Psyker.

Much like the Sisterhood, the Black Templars view the God-Emperor as Humanity perfected. He was the greatest and the best, all other psykers, compared to him, are but weak and pale imitators, and are unworthy to even consider themselves "like" the Emperor.

Nice Dune analogy

 Psienesis wrote:
Navigators aren't psykers

Yes they are. They are very specifically psykers. They call upon the powers of the warp-- their mutation makes them do so in a specific way, but tha'ts really no different than, say, Astropaths.

TiamatRoar wrote:
If I recall correctly, BT saw mutants and psykers as potentially tainted by the warp and not to be trusted. However, Navigators and Astropaths were tolerable (not liked, but tolerated) because they're both necessary and sanctioned by the emperor himself (astropaths are even soul bound to the emperor) while the Grey Knights have proven that they're free of the taint and thus can be trusted (because not one Grey Knight has ever fallen to Chaos).

yet while in 6th ed chaos daemons if you roll a 11 on the warp storm table a psyker must make a 3d6 LD test and if failed it turns into a daemon and cause every grey knight is a psyker there's a fluff problem

Although the idea of a daemon randomly EXPLODING out of a grey knight's head or a grey knight randomly transforming into a daemon is pretty funny. But yea, that'd be almost as bad a fluff contradiction as Abaddon ascending to Daemon Prince. Guess they forgot to FAQ it out, unlike Abaddon.

 church_ex wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:
(because not one Grey Knight has ever fallen to Chaos).

yet while in 6th ed chaos daemons if you roll a 11 on the warp storm table a psyker must make a 3d6 LD test and if failed it turns into a daemon and cause every grey knight is a psyker there's a fluff problem

There's no fluff problem. The GK didn't fall, he was warp-exploded as a gateway to bring in a daemon.