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Both Space Marines and Dark Angels are capable of fielding a bike themed army. Which codex has the better army?

Codex Dark Angels-
The Dark Angels codex has the benefit of a 6th Edition codex with some rather new and interesting toys.
HQ-Unlocking In order to unlock Ravenwing as troops you have to take the special Character Sammael, who flies around on a plasma cannon toting jet bike. He has a few advantages from using the jetbike rules and a master-crafted AP2 sword that can strike at initiative. He also comes with Eternal Warrior from his adamantine mantel, but only has 3+/4++ for saves, leaving him vulnerable to small arms fire. Sammael also has skilled rider, which can be used to boost the jink save on one of bike squads in the army if he isn't trying to add a few extra wounds to dakka banner toting command squad. Additionally Sammael can take a landspeeder instead of his jetbike. His landspeeder has AV 14 on the front and sides with twin-linked Assault cannons and twin-linked heavy bolters.
HQ-Support While not directly related to being a bike army, Dark Angels have some of the cheapest psykers out of the marine codexes. Mounted on a bike, a librarian can bring some psychic support and defense to go. DA does have access to the divination discipline, but most bike weapons are already twin-linked. But prescience can still find a place on a vindicator shell or the plasma guns in a bike squad. Perfect timing can be absolutely devastating when applied to black knights. Additionally the DA also have access to telepathy which includes gems like psychic shriek and invisibility. Another advantage held by the DA is the almighty banner of devastation. This baby turns all bolters within 6" into salvo 2/4 weapons.
The Bikes- Dark Angels Bring some pretty interesting advantages to the table. DA bikes have the stubborn and hit and run special rules. This makes it easier for the bikes to avoid combats they find disadvantageous. They also carry teleport homers so bringing terminator deep strike support does not require the use of a land raider. DA attack bikes form their own unit when purchased, so they can engage separate targets from the main bike squad, but are easier to pick off.
Fast attack support- Landspeeder typhoons are a bargain compared to their astartes marines counterparts, 15pts cheaper. The DA codex also has access to the Black knights. Black Knights have skilled rider, hit and run, +1S rending close combat weapons, and have twin-linked plasma talons (18" range plasma guns). They can also take some grenades to lay debuffs on enemy units. Black Knights are a pretty solid unit and can really benefit from an invisibilty libby or perfect timing. Another unit at their disposal is the darkshrould. This speeder has shroud and hands the stealth USR out like candy to nearby units.
Heavy Tanks- A vindicator is a pretty solid addition to a biker list and can intimidate some opponents with their S10 AP2 large blast demolisher cannons. Their AV 11 side armor and short range are weaknesses. DA also pay 10 points more for the vindicator than Vanilla marines. Whirlwinds can be had on the cheap. Additionally, land raider crusaders can benefit from the dakka banner (or provide a command squad with dakka banner if you don't want to have to try to defend a bike command squad).
Aircraft and Anti-Air- Unfortunately dark angels flyers are rather lackluster. They are more geared towards killing ground infantry (something the bikes and other units in the DA army can already do well). As for ground based AA, devastators with flak missiles are horribly over priced and their static emplacement clashes with the speed of the rest of the list. The aegis suffers similar issues of mobility, and 1 isn't enough to take down helldrakes, which are the bane of any bike army's existence. The best option for fighting fliers in the DA codex can be found in black knight units. Black knights bring a mass of twin-linked S7 AP2 to the table. But you run into issues of range.

Codex: Space Marines-
HQ- Unlocking Space marines have to take a captain mounted on a bike to unlock space marine bikes as troops. The biker captain brings some serious advantages to the table. He can be equipped with artificer armor and a storm shield. Additionally he can be kitted out with a thunderhammer or relic blade (I prefer the relic blade but the hammer certainly has its merits). The bike captian also has access to some good wargear like digital weapons and hellfire ammo. The availability of 2+ armor does allow the captain to shield a squad from the ravages of a helldrake if used properly (I may consider designing a double-captain bike list to take advantage of this fact).
HQ- Support Space marines don't fair as well as their DA counterparts here, their librarians are expensive and lack access to the divination discipline, but this will likely change in their next codex.
The Bikes- Space Marine bikes have a few advantages, They clock in a couple of points cheaper than their DA friends, have leadership 9. Their squad sizes are also larger (up to 8 bikes plus an attack bike). They also have combat tactics which allows the marines to fall back to avoid disadvantageous assaults or try to escape from ones they are already in. SM attack bikes are attached to the squads that purchase them this makes them easier to protect, but limits your ability to engage multiple targets. You can combat squad and split the squads if the situation calls for it, allowing the attack bike to bring some ablative wounds with it.
Fast Attack Support- SM can purchase attack bikes in squads of up to 3 if the need more bodies to be chasing down tanks. They also have Vanguard vets to jump squishy backfield units from out of nowhere (this tactic is risky and expensive mind you).
Elites support- Another Area that the vanilla codex can shine. A squad of sternguard in a drop-pod can bring some turn 1 alpha strike to your list and do damage to things you believe are the biggest threats to your bikes. Additionally, the sterngaurd will provide some measure of distraction from your main force, the enemy can't afford to ignore a squad running around their backfield with meltas and/or special issue ammo. Space marine hammernators are cheapest in town, but require a land raider to use effectively.
Heavy Support- The SM codex has the vindicator tank here. It is rather affordable and can soak anti tank weapons allowing to field lighter armor and gain board control. SM's also have the thunderfire cannon, which is durable and effective, but clashes with the mobile bike theme.
Aircraft and Anit-Air- Space Marine flyers are actually rather effective. The Storm talon can be kitted out to hunt flyers and flying MC rather effectively and can drop most swarm type units fast as well (massed S6+ firing with moderate to good AP coming from a wide angle to avoid enemy cover). Strafing run allows the Storm talon to do quality work on medium infantry and light-medium vehicles as well. The turret mount on the assault cannon allows for tactics like flying into the rear arc of a vehicle and engaging it's AV 10 back armor. The Storm Raven is expensive, but it can bring flying MM to the table and has a load of S8 AP2 missiles to put the hurt on elite infantry/ MC's. The Storm raven has a transport capacity, but it is better fielded as a gunboat. As for ground based AA solutions, the marines are just as lacking as thier DA counterparts.


I feel that I have presented a balanced view of both lists and would like to hear your thoughts and suggestions. If there is interest, I may try to publish this as an article.

This was a good, open opinion poll. I'm glad I read it. you make some good points.

While I prefer vanilla, I think both armies can be effective and fun. You also didn't touch on the vanilla command squads. Or scout bikers as a support unit.

And while we may pay more for our librarians, we get to pick powers; at least for now. Divination is nice, but then, so is Null Zone.

I think Ravenwing get the nod due to cheaper overall bikes and the special rules they've gained. I do think C:SM has some better support options though. Namely thunderfire cannons and storm talons/ravens.

Aww, HQ support is missing the Interrogator chaplain on a bike w/ mace of redemption I think he would go great with a Black knight squad for some CCW insurance.

. Also, Power field generators and tech marines on bikes can help add to the synergy of some units, adding invuln saves to some of the squishy units, like Land speeders or Vindicators.

Nicely thought-out original post.

I went for Ravenwing, the one thing they have over vanilla that to me is more important than anything else is Hit and Run. Every basic biker unit has it, and when your biggest weakness is getting bogged down in close combat against the odds, the ability to get out of it easily is a big deal.

Na na na naaaaaaaaa

Nice write-up - is's always good to see other Space Marine bike players!

I've been slowly getting to grips with the my White Scars using the vanilla codex, and have been having a lot of fun. There are definite advantages to fielding a bike force, but at the moment I feel the Dark Angels have the upper hand. combat tactics is pretty nice, and not having to take a special character is also handy, but overall the better bikes and support units designed to accompany them win out.

question: i thought black knights had +1 str and rending, not str 6 ap4? did i miss an FAQ?

Neither! Wazzdakka is the best biker in da GALAXY! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

I think your best bet is a mix of both, with Codex:SM as your primary so that you can take 3 Stormtalons. Your allied DA detachment has to take a deck chair of Scouts, but that's not always a bad thing since Black Knights are head and shoulders above RW attack squads. Add in the flexibility you get with Khan and a SM Librarian with Null Zone to let you outflank a Black Knight Squad and a Ravenwing Command Squad and you're good as gold.

joe_deman wrote:
question: i thought black knights had +1 str and rending, not str 6 ap4? did i miss an FAQ?

Nope, you're right - seems someone's getting their hammers mixed up with power mauls. I missed that part, though I'm not sure if they can take power weapons on top.

While I feel that C:SM have better support units, I think Ravenwing win this match because of the force multipliers that they have access to in their codex, the 'dakka' banner being the best example (others include the power field generator, darkshroud, dirt cheap librarians).

I will say this though, not having effective anti-air in a meta full of flyers is painful for a bike army, particularly the heldrakes.

 Super Ready wrote:

joe_deman wrote:
question: i thought black knights had +1 str and rending, not str 6 ap4? did i miss an FAQ?

Nope, you're right - seems someone's getting their hammers mixed up with power mauls. I missed that part, though I'm not sure if they can take power weapons on top.

I'll have to fix that, thanks for pointing that out.


Additionally, space marine bikes are 2 points cheaper than DA.

 phatonic wrote:
Neither! Wazzdakka is the best biker in da GALAXY! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

Nob bikers are the best unit in the game, something I wish I took to heart before I started buying and painting a footslog army. Those boyz are being put to use as a Green Tide Apoc army and my main gaming force is going to be a biker warband.

 phatonic wrote:
Neither! Wazzdakka is the best biker in da GALAXY! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

It's a toss up between Wazz and zhadsnark da ripper from IA 8.

snarky has a I4 PK and can tank shock people.

Wazz can turbo boost & shoot his impressive gun.

I think toughness 6 nurgle bikers should get a mention.

I like running Salamanders on bikes, personally.

 Nevelon wrote:
While I prefer vanilla, I think both armies can be effective and fun. You also didn't touch on the vanilla command squads. Or scout bikers as a support unit.

And while we may pay more for our librarians, we get to pick powers; at least for now. Divination is nice, but then, so is Null Zone.

Nullzone is the best psychic power ever. Esepcially when your unit ignores cover and armour already... (farsight.)

i loves me some chaos bikers. throw in a lord with axe'o'blind fury.... mmmmmmmmmmm good stuff

I voted SM. Simply because of more options. The customisability of the captain is just too useful for me.

Null Zone + TFC = win. Sorry Chaos Daemons.

thelordcal wrote:
Null Zone + TFC = win. Sorry Chaos Daemons.

And every army out there is Chaos Daemons, right?

Anyways, C:SM has better overall support, and their flyers are much much better and can be dedicated anti-air units (Looking at Storm Talon specifically). Dark Angels troops are better overall and the force multipliers are better than C:SM. Overall, Dark Angels win by a tiny bit, but solid biker list is C:SM main detach w/ bike captain having AA, SS, and TH; SM bikes w/ Attack bike; 3 Storm talons; Storm Raven/TFC including DA allies having a Libby on bike, Techmarine on bike w/ PFG, and a Dark Shroud Land speeder

Between your two options, I like vanilla marines better because they have better support options for bikes. I've seen me more than a few games involving ravenwing of late and I've always felt like the bikes are good but kind of let down by the rest of the codex.

In general, yeah, ork bikes are way the best.

RW have scout. This is so important for the first turn alpha strike. It gives their Multi melta Attack Bike's a threat range of 48" (12 for scout 12 for move and 24 for range). That is the main reason why they are better than vanilla bikes IMO.

This thread should be renamed to this.

 phatonic wrote:
This thread should be renamed to this.

Please, please no that gives me bad memories of Neverending Story 3.

sirlynchmob wrote:

 phatonic wrote:
Neither! Wazzdakka is the best biker in da GALAXY! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

It's a toss up between Wazz and zhadsnark da ripper from IA 8.

snarky has a I4 PK and can tank shock people.

Wazz can turbo boost & shoot his impressive gun.

Don't forget Zhadsnark bans Big Guns and walkers from your list when he is Warlord of your army. Which sucks because Big Guns are amazing - though you could always take another HQ with Ld 9 to be Warlord instead.

 Dakkamite wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

 phatonic wrote:
Neither! Wazzdakka is the best biker in da GALAXY! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

It's a toss up between Wazz and zhadsnark da ripper from IA 8.

snarky has a I4 PK and can tank shock people.

Wazz can turbo boost & shoot his impressive gun.

Don't forget Zhadsnark bans Big Guns and walkers from your list when he is Warlord of your army. Which sucks because Big Guns are amazing - though you could always take another HQ with Ld 9 to be Warlord instead.

Or.. or, use Zhad as a allied HQ, If that was possible or not i dont recall..

 phatonic wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

 phatonic wrote:
Neither! Wazzdakka is the best biker in da GALAXY! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

It's a toss up between Wazz and zhadsnark da ripper from IA 8.

snarky has a I4 PK and can tank shock people.

Wazz can turbo boost & shoot his impressive gun.

Don't forget Zhadsnark bans Big Guns and walkers from your list when he is Warlord of your army. Which sucks because Big Guns are amazing - though you could always take another HQ with Ld 9 to be Warlord instead.

Or.. or, use Zhad as a allied HQ, If that was possible or not i dont recall..

Yes it is

You can have Snarky, Wazzy, and a warboss on a warbike, then get as many bikers as you can