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Here's a scenario that showed up in a game that was played on Saturday. Didn't have an impact on final result, but it seems like the kind of things that could come up again. Target was a unit of guardians with a weapon platform and warlock. As far as distance goes, the platform was closer than warlock, so would normally be allocated to first.

1. The rules say the platform disappears when the guardians all die. But when does that actually happen? For example, if you get 6 wounds (assume AP5 to keep things simple) on a unit with 3 guardians, a platform, and a warlock, would you be able to allocate any wounds onto the platform before it bit the dust from all the guardians dying?

2. If a squad is reduced down to only a warlock, is the unit still considered scoring, assuming the unit was to begin with? My opponent didn't think so, but I'm not sure he was just being nice to me since he was beating me pretty decent already.

Neither were contentious or important to the game's result, but I could see that making the difference in a game fairly easily.

1) Wounds are allocated one at a time. So, yes you can allocate to the platform ( I assume the platform has a statline here, no codex to hand)

2) Yes, same as Wolf Guard, Royal Court etc.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
1) Wounds are allocated one at a time. So, yes you can allocate to the platform ( I assume the platform has a statline here, no codex to hand)

I'm not so sure... unsaved wounds are allocated to models and casualties are removed one at a time. It seems to me plausible that you would remove the first three guardians, and then immediately since no Guardians are left in the squad, the weapons platform would be removed before you could allocate the next wound to it. Then all the rest of the wounds would go onto the Warlock.

The platform's rule simply says "If there are no Guardians, remove it as a casualty"... so to me, that sort of means that as soon as the last Guardian dies, so does the weapon platform.

The only way that it doesn't is if you get to allocate unsaved wounds to the platform before you remove that last Guardian as a casualty. If all unsaved wounds were allocated all at once, or if all casualties were removed all at once, you could do it.. but because they're done one-at-a-time I think you can't.

I think this is just lazy writing... it would make much more sense to Errata the Weapon Platform text to read instead of "If there are no Guardians AT THE END OF ANY PHASE remove it as a casualty"

But then again that might make worse sense... you could end up with a Weapons Platform that survives by itself at the end of Assault, and isn't removed from play unit the end of Assault, in which case the assault winner doesn't get to make its consolidation move.

Murrdox - did you read the scenario ? the platform was closest

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Murrdox - did you read the scenario ? the platform was closest

The platform was closer than the Warlock. No mention of distance in regards to Guardians was mentioned.

I'm assuming that the first question is basically this:

Enemy unit----------------------G1 G2 G3 HWP Wa

In which case the wounds would first be allocated to the Guardians thus killing them leaving 3 wounds. Since there are no Guardians, the Platform is removed and the remaining 3 wounds go to the Warlock.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

2) Yes, same as Wolf Guard, Royal Court etc.

I don't understand this, is this in a FAQ?

The weapons platform doesn't follow the artillery rules, but has its own profile - so you treat it as a unit member for allocation. The only exception is it's ignored for LOS!.
So, if it's closest, not only can you allocate wounds to it, you MUST.
If the Guardians are all nearer, it's a tricky question. The wording from the rules on page 66 suggest it's removed immediately - "If there are no Guardians left in the unit, remove the heavy weapons platform as a casualty." However, shooting from a single unit must occur simultaneously as per the rulebook.

I see this playing out in one of two ways:
1) you resolve the shooting attack first, then remove the platform if still there, since the former states it's simultaneous whereas the latter only implies it.
2) the player whose turn it is chooses - and as that'll usually be the firing player, they'll choose to remove it immediately so that the wound can go to someone else.

jcress410 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

2) Yes, same as Wolf Guard, Royal Court etc.

I don't understand this, is this in a FAQ?

It's in the Eldar codex, they can be assigned to a unit and become Infantry (character) like a sergeant would be. They aren't allowed to split off, they're part of the unit.

 Happyjew wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Murrdox - did you read the scenario ? the platform was closest

The platform was closer than the Warlock. No mention of distance in regards to Guardians was mentioned.

I'm assuming that the first question is basically this:

Enemy unit----------------------G1 G2 G3 HWP Wa

In which case the wounds would first be allocated to the Guardians thus killing them leaving 3 wounds. Since there are no Guardians, the Platform is removed and the remaining 3 wounds go to the Warlock.

Thanks Happyjew. This is the scenario that I was assuming. The Guardians are the closest members, so they die first, followed by the Weapons Platform, which is removed immediately after the last Guardian dies... meaning that you cannot allocate any wounds to the platform, and thus the Warlock must absorb all the remaining wounds by himself.

Ah yes, in that situation yes the platform is removed immedately the last guardian is removed.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Ah yes, in that situation yes the platform is removed immedately the last guardian is removed.

That's the problem... it doesn't say immediately. You would of course have to perform the check after removing the Guardian, so in practical terms it might as well say it... but given all shooting from a unit is simultaneous, is that "immediately" considered before or after resolving the rest of the wounds?

 shamikebab wrote:

jcress410 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

2) Yes, same as Wolf Guard, Royal Court etc.

I don't understand this, is this in a FAQ?

It's in the Eldar codex, they can be assigned to a unit and become Infantry (character) like a sergeant would be. They aren't allowed to split off, they're part of the unit.

sure, but I wouldn't have assumed this meant they become 'troops' and are scoring w/o the rest of the unit.

either way ur opponent is stupid to put the platform at the front, the guardians are what t3 i have heard the warlock is t4 and the platform i believe to be t7 as per arty and emplacement rules but dont quote me on that.

Therefor the average toughness is 3, so my bolters are hitting on 3's wounding on 3's and as the platform is at the front it takes wounds on a 3+ thank you for a quick easy kill

Chris Lysander wrote:
either way ur opponent is stupid to put the platform at the front, the guardians are what t3 i have heard the warlock is t4 and the platform i believe to be t7 as per arty and emplacement rules but dont quote me on that.

Therefor the average toughness is 3, so my bolters are hitting on 3's wounding on 3's and as the platform is at the front it takes wounds on a 3+ thank you for a quick easy kill

Which then gets its 3+ armour save.

Warlocks aren't T4; Eldar heavy weapons aren't artillery, and so aren't T7. And until you're down to just a lone guardian and his gun, majority toughness is always going to be a problem.

lol the 3+save, throw 10 bolter shots at it it goes down everytime and usually kills off 1-2 guardians on top

stathammer 101, 10 hitting on 3's, so 7-8 shots hit depending on rolling surface (hence i always roll into a small container) then wounding on 3's and assuming no re-rolls, 6-7 wounds.

6-7 saves, means 2 wounds for defo and depending on other factors you could be looking at 1-2 dead duardians. the guardians are no threat its the platform and the lock

Chris Lysander wrote:
either way ur opponent is stupid to put the platform at the front, the guardians are what t3 i have heard the warlock is t4 and the platform i believe to be t7 as per arty and emplacement rules but dont quote me on that.

Therefor the average toughness is 3, so my bolters are hitting on 3's wounding on 3's and as the platform is at the front it takes wounds on a 3+ thank you for a quick easy kill

The platform was behind the guardians, but in front of the warlock (as far as distances went-- not the actual ordering) Also confused why the artillery rules matter, since the platform is still infantry. Only the support platforms are artillery, not the standard weapons platform in a guardian defender squad.

Thanks for the clarification on the warlock. I thought he should still be able to claim the objective with his solo warlock. But in the end he beat me pretty badly so I guess it only matters for future games.

i dont know the toughness of the platform or if it even has one i was assuming it would have the same profile as arty like it used to. i did point out i was assuming, and since its a threat you don't want it taking wounds fast and if its rules say like someone said it is removed when all gaurdians are dead then it wouldn't be in front of the warlock any way

Chris Lysander wrote:
i dont know the toughness of the platform or if it even has one i was assuming it would have the same profile as arty like it used to. i did point out i was assuming, and since its a threat you don't want it taking wounds fast and if its rules say like someone said it is removed when all gaurdians are dead then it wouldn't be in front of the warlock any way

In situations where you don't know the rule, please refrain from offering a rules interpretation. It's not helpful in YMDC.

Having run into this in game, the Heavy Weapon s Platforms do indeed have an entry in the back of the Eldar Codex, providing their Toughness and their Save.