Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm on the fence about how to equip a squad of five Iyanden Wraithguard. I specifically mention Iyanden because I'll be using the supplement. (I said I wasn't going to buy into it, but sadly GW caught me hook, line and sinker.) Anyway...

Option 1. D-scyths. No roll to hit, template, but only S4 Ap2. Instant Death and auto pen on 6's.

Option 2. Wraith canon. Have to roll to hit, but can re-roll ones if I Spirit Mark the unit, only 5 shots, S10 Ap2. Instant Death and auto pen on 6's, but also possibly due to S10.

In either case, the Iyanden Spiritseer gives the Wraithguard Battle Focus to close the shooting gap or move back to increase retaliatory charge distance.

Thoughts?

I think it largely depends on the rest of your choices. If you take WS then you can better handles light AV and get into range so can do scythes for the majority of the squads. If you take wraithlords with SC/SL loads then you should probably take cannons.

Eldar lists in my experience start with HS, then elites/FA, then HQ, and end with troops as all the other options tend to determine what you need.

Iyanden is an awesome craftworld and my favorite so I love to jump in on these types of discussions!

Ultimately, if you are just having one WG squad for your army and if it is going to be in a Wave Serpent, one 5 strong unit with D-Scythe is an excellent option. Especially because while the regular D-Cannon Wraithguard are s10, they don't ignore cover and a 6 on the penetrating/to-wound roll will auto-pen/instant kill anything wile ignoring cover which is usually the biggest hindrance to causing damage/wounds.

If you will have multiple units of Wraithguard in Wave Serpents, a good mix of Wraithgun/D-Scythe is good to go as well since the D-Cannons can bust open transports while the D-Scythe destroy the units inside.

I could see 1x5 D-Scythe in Serpents, 2x5 Wraithguns in Serpents and 1x5 Wraithblades for fun.

If you are running any on foot, Wraithgun is probably best because you will most likely have Battle Focus (if running Iyanden) so you can get in range fairly fast and then run out of range later on and the shooting is just so potent with Guide. This type of set-up also helps safe-guard any Wraithlords/Wraithknights from certain threats coming their way. 2 units on foot, a unit of D-Cannon Wraithguard with a unit of Wraithblades with maybe Baron for Hit & Run somewhere in there.

I agree with what Ansacs said above in that Wave Serpents really help a Wraith heavy army deal with hordes/light vehicles and especially Venom Spam since venoms suck against Serpents (kind of ironic because the serpent has the venom eh?).

Anyway, Iyanden is my favorite craftworld so I hope some other Eldar players jump in on this and give their thoughts, tactics and so on.

Unfortunately Wraithguard (canon) are rubbish... they only excel at anti-tank... there are better units for that price... Wraithscythes are better in every way but point costs... and even then it's worth it...

The only question you have is:
1}Fly 'em in (Wave-serpent) Whilst this seems expensive.. remember that WS are considered overpowered in current 'Dex.. so its less Wserpent with Wscythes than Wscythes with Wserpent...
2} Vanguard.. I've had a few good games now were I've held the unit back with a SS and battle focused into the side of an aggressive unit turn 2-3 (after sacrificing units/ taking casualties, yes, but even three templates devastate)

Look at it this way... even with spirit-link... canons have almost 2/6 chance of hitting one target each in 12".. scythes autohit 1+ (average 3+) units each within 8".. both need 6's to devo monstrous/ multiwound char.. as said only good against tanks... only ever take Wblades/ Wscythes

I've had a lot of success taking 5 Wraithguard (w/ cannons) in a Wave Serpent w/ Spiritseer, just as allies (building up slowly). The Wave Serpent just prints money in the form of dead enemies, and the wraithguard are a great psychological threat (even when they miss, opponents tunnel-vision onto them) and objective holder.

ansacs is right, even if Wraithguard are your ally contingent. It's nice to have your wraithguard be able to handle targets that might trouble the rest of your list. That said, if you're only taking a single unit in a WS, then they're probably best used to hold objectives (T6 3+ save baby!). Then it's basically a matter of whether you have 50 points to spare on D-scythes. With D-scythes, they'll be able to take out infantry clumped on an enemy objective, and can largely hold against enemy infantry trying to charge them off of one. However, it's 50 points, and then you lost most of the S10 threat except for random Distortion procs, and Spirit Link.

Taking a mix is probably the right answer, experiment to figure out what the right mix for you is. The Wave Serpents are basically mandatory though, they're that good (SLaser/Holofields/maybe underslung SCannon).

Look at it this way... even with spirit-link... canons have almost 2/6 chance of hitting one target each in 12".. scythes autohit 1+ (average 3+) units each within 8".. both need 6's to devo monstrous/ multiwound char.. as said only good against tanks... only ever take Wblades/ Wscythes

You left out that the cannons wound just about everything in the game on a 2+, and the fact that the cannons double T3,4, and 5, which also allows them to deny FNP.

I think it's a pretty tough decision between the two, and ideally you should have a group of each, but it's a bit inaccurate to say the Canons only excel at killing vehicles.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Look at it this way... even with spirit-link... canons have almost 2/6 chance of hitting one target each in 12".. scythes autohit 1+ (average 3+) units each within 8".. both need 6's to devo monstrous/ multiwound char.. as said only good against tanks... only ever take Wblades/ Wscythes

You left out that the cannons wound just about everything in the game on a 2+, and the fact that the cannons double T3,4, and 5, which also allows them to deny FNP.

I think it's a pretty tough decision between the two, and ideally you should have a group of each, but it's a bit inaccurate to say the Canons only excel at killing vehicles.

I can understand where your coming from... and yes in this regard canons kick *&^% but I stand by my comment that there are cheaper/ more effective (range/ speed/ survivability) ways to bring high strength insta-kills/ AV hunter with elder/allies..
yet few ways to bring a distort template that can't (shouldn't?) be assaulted.

I think the S10 is great against Demon Princes which generally can give Eldar a hard time if spammed...The Cannons will force the opponent to be more careful because possibly losing 1 Prince to shooting and then another to Overwatch is a risk they will have to consider.

Furthermore, the S10 makes it that much better against big vehicles that other units will have a harder time cracking like Land Raiders and especially if you might end up having to face an Achilles (some tournaments allow FW). If you ever come across a Black Templar Land Raider with Blessed Hull, you might be glad you got the S10 as well (though you probably will win anyway by virtue of them being Black Templars).

All in all, a combination of Wraithgun/D-Scythe is good and solid IMO.

Well, I'd prefer Wraithguard w/ D scythes for greater damage output. Moreover, nobody will want to charge such a unit. This would be suicide.
If so, you need to have some heavy guns elsewhere (Fire Dragons, Warwalkers).

Well Mortetvie, I see what you're at... Since I play a lot of 'Nid Monster-mash.. I'll take you're call and give the canons a go... see how they go

Both Wraithcannon and D-Scythe have a good use and both offer you a lot to work with so I don't think it SHOULD be one or the other...You really can't go wrong with both unit types in your army and since this is Iyanden...Why not go all out and spam Wraithguard in Serpents? Serpents are amazing vehicles and supplement Wraithguard's weaknesses very well (protecting them from Venoms and such early on while taking out light vehicles/hordes at range).

I think a 1 Wraithcannon to 1 D-Scythes or 2 Wraithcannon to 1 D-Scythe unit in a Serpent ratio will probably be optimal in Iyanden style lists. You can also have a decent ground unit to give Battle Focus to Wraithlords/Knights. One unit of Wraithblades in a Serpent couldn't hurt either as there might be something worth charging or tying up in combat at some point.

 mortetvie wrote:


I could see 1x5 D-Scythe in Serpents, 2x5 Wraithguns in Serpents and 1x5 Wraithblades for fun.

Thats my plan exactly - but leading the wraithblades with a phoenix lord, having a jetseer with the mantle to buff them and adding a spiritseer to runes of battle whichever squad's at the front

(obviously at 2K, double foc)

In general, D-scythes should be in wave serpents, cannons in CE should be in serpents, Cannons in Iyanden should get away with running.

Yea, this is a tough one. They're both SOoo good in their own regard.

I'll be (temporarily) running them as an ally to Space Marines. Since I don't intend to place them in a Wave Serpent I'm leaning towards using the cannons.