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Hi all

If I have a Warlock or Spirit seer in a wave serpent with conceal, can he cast it on the tank and have it stack with the vehicles jink save and holofield?

I hope so, cos a 2+ cover save wave serpent is going to take some killing and would be worth it for the look on the opponents face when you do it!

Jink is a 5+ cover save, improved to 4+ for flat out movement

Conceal is a flat cover save of 5+? In whihc case you get two cover saves of 5+ (one at 4+ if you flat out) which are then improved

If instead Conceal IMPROVES an existing cover save, like holofields / disruption pods / stealth etc, then it would indeed improve the cover save provided by Jink

Conceal now gives shrouded which is +2 to your cover save.

So a moving wave serpent with jink, conceal and holofields would get a 2+ cover save, even in the open?

That's awesome! I am gonna have to try it in my next game (which won't be hard to arrange as conceal is a primaris power).

Can conceal definitely be cast on the serpent? Haven't got my codex on me but I thought it was worded as 'gives the warlocks unit shrouded' or something like that?

It might be, in which case this combo wouldn't work. Shame as it would be fun!

Doesn't work. Conceal gives the psyker shrouded. Its unit benefits from it due to Shrouded's wording, noone else.

If the Warlock is onboard the Wave Serpent with his unit, the Wave Serpent becomes part of the unit. Since the FAQ for psykers not being able to cast out of vehicles was the old edition codex and no longer in the FAQ/Errata, could he now cast it on himself while embarked? This is of course provided that it's a buff and not a straight save.

What makes the Serpent part of the unit?

 Farseer14 wrote:
If the Warlock is onboard the Wave Serpent with his unit, the Wave Serpent becomes part of the unit.

So the Wave Serpent will have to embark upon itself?

Your statement is incorrect. There are no rules stating that "Wave Serpent becomes part of the unit" If you disagree could you point me to a Page and Graph where this rule is located please.

DeathReaper and shamikebab have it right Farseer14. What you said is not a real thing. The Wave Serpent is always a separate unit from the one that purchased it as a Dedicated Transport. Conceal would never be able to be granted to it.

On the other hand, cant you do this to jetbikes?

for jetbikes turbo boosting gives a 4+, conceal makes it a 2+

Jet bike jink 5+ skilled rider (shining spears only) +1, Shrouded +2, ya you can have a 2+ cover easy with bikers.

As far as a dedicated transport is concerned it is apart of the unit and the warlock is not. This is where your problem is. It targets the psyker only and will confir it to the unit it joins. Not counting the vehicle.

Also, drop warlocks all together. They are really pointless at ld8 and bring nothing to your army that you cannot supplement with a spirit seer.

Also, laughing god autarch is where it is at. With so many things getting twin linked in an eldar army and having reliable cover saves (unless you play against Tau or Turkey spam Chaos) there is really no need for a farseer, spiritseer, or even warlocks.

Far seers are amazing army buffers that have tremendous offensive punch. Spiritseers turn our best unit into a scoring unit and is a cheap, level 2 Psyker, who just makes that unit better. Warlocks should not be taken in abundance, but one or two with a a Singing Spear is not going to hurt your army.

Gray1378 wrote:
Jet bike jink 5+ skilled rider (shining spears only) +1, Shrouded +2, ya you can have a 2+ cover easy with bikers.

Warlocks cannot join Shining Spears and Spiritseers cannot ride Jetbikes, so that doesn't work.

2+ cover save when boosting with regular jet bikes and Warlock though. Personally I haven't bothered with a warlock yet, it's a lot of points for an LD8 1 wound psyker.

By strict RAW, a Warlock that joins any other unit (even a Windrider Jetbike unit) changes its unit type to Infantry (Character). It doesn't matter if it is on a jetbike itself, it's still only Infantry.

 Cheexsta wrote:
By strict RAW, a Warlock that joins any other unit (even a Windrider Jetbike unit) changes its unit type to Infantry (Character). It doesn't matter if it is on a jetbike itself, it's still only Infantry.

Why's that?

Tactical_Genius wrote:

 Cheexsta wrote:
By strict RAW, a Warlock that joins any other unit (even a Windrider Jetbike unit) changes its unit type to Infantry (Character). It doesn't matter if it is on a jetbike itself, it's still only Infantry.

Why's that?

It's due to order of operations -
List building, Warlock purchases bike changing type to EJB (per Jetbike rules)
Deployment, Warlock joins a Windrider Jetbike unit changing type to Infantry (Character) per Warlock rules.

 Happyjew wrote:

Tactical_Genius wrote:

 Cheexsta wrote:
By strict RAW, a Warlock that joins any other unit (even a Windrider Jetbike unit) changes its unit type to Infantry (Character). It doesn't matter if it is on a jetbike itself, it's still only Infantry.

Why's that?

It's due to order of operations -
List building, Warlock purchases bike changing type to EJB (per Jetbike rules)
Deployment, Warlock joins a Windrider Jetbike unit changing type to Infantry (Character) per Warlock rules.

Even as strict RAW they're still a Eldar Jetbike (Character)

It's not like the Windrider Jetbike is a one time use, the fact that the character has it equipped constantly changes his type to Eldar Jetbike.

Also one thing to note is if he perils when casting, say double 1 the power wont affect anything sadly.

VincereSC wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

Tactical_Genius wrote:

 Cheexsta wrote:
By strict RAW, a Warlock that joins any other unit (even a Windrider Jetbike unit) changes its unit type to Infantry (Character). It doesn't matter if it is on a jetbike itself, it's still only Infantry.

Why's that?

It's due to order of operations -
List building, Warlock purchases bike changing type to EJB (per Jetbike rules)
Deployment, Warlock joins a Windrider Jetbike unit changing type to Infantry (Character) per Warlock rules.

Even as strict RAW they're still a Eldar Jetbike (Character)

It's not like the Windrider Jetbike is a one time use, the fact that the character has it equipped constantly changes his type to Eldar Jetbike.

Good point, hadn't thought of it like that

I only added shining spears due to the skilled rider rule as they are the only ones that have it as far as troops/fast attack are concerned.

Also, yes if perils is rolled then it kinda negates the spell as he will die.

I have been running no farseer for quite some time now and have not missed him/her at all. In bigger games I will include a spirit seer/ wraith seer so I can get some nice hard hitting troops.

Autarch is where its at and I believe will continue to be until we get an actual faq. There is just too much twin linked goodness to really need a farseer.

Runes of Fate are a very potent psychic school and for this reason even at leadership 8 and 35 points they are good, but not as mobile blessing dispensers. I find that a critically timed malediction or using them simply as bullet stoppers is sometimes very much worth 35pts. Or 40 points like that time when his spear scored a penetrating hit on an assaulting chariot of chaos (which sadly didn't die from it, but it did reduce HP by one)

MarkyMark wrote:
Also one thing to note is if he perils when casting, say double 1 the power wont affect anything sadly.

In this case, you are very correct. His other blessings target the unit, this blessing targets the psycher only.