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So i have been doing a lot of reading and browsing and have come to the conclusion that i want to start up a CSM army. I've played Necrons and Tyranids so the whole space marine army idea is new to me

Just wondering what's the best army list to start up with and get my feet wet?
What HQ is best, do i go full out Abbadon or start small with a sorcerer or lord?
Troops? Transports?
I know i really want termies becasue they CSM terminators just look so damn cool, but other then that what's a good foundation?

eventually i want to mix in some Chaos Daemons with the army but i'll get to that once i'm a little more comfortable with them

Any input would be much appreciated!

With Chaos there are some questions you need to ask yourself before you get any models.

1. Are you going mono god (i.e. only Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle or Slaanesh units and marks) or a mix?
2. Are you going for cult troops, basic marines, cultists or a mix?
3. Are you going for mainly shooty or assault?
4. Whats points value are you looking to start at?


This will then dictate your initial choices.

Personally, I would start at something like 1000pts with:

Sorceror - ML3, Mark and wargear to taste

2 x 10 CSM squads - melta/plasma, champ with power weapon or fist, meltabombs, rhino

1 or 2 units of 10 cultists for objective holding

7-8 Havocs with 4 autocannons

I would also try and get either a unit of bikes or spawn in fast attack, in which case the HQ would ride a bike as well.

I don't play CSM so I don't know the points costs or new rules but this is what I would go with for a TAC 1000pt list.

If I was going to do CSM myself though, it would be Death Guard with loads of Plague Marines, but that is just me!

 rohansoldier wrote:
With Chaos there are some questions you need to ask yourself before you get any models.

1. Are you going mono god (i.e. only Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle or Slaanesh units and marks) or a mix?
2. Are you going for cult troops, basic marines, cultists or a mix?
3. Are you going for mainly shooty or assault?
4. Whats points value are you looking to start at?


This will then dictate your initial choices.

Personally, I would start at something like 1000pts with:

Sorceror - ML3, Mark and wargear to taste

2 x 10 CSM squads - melta/plasma, champ with power weapon or fist, meltabombs, rhino

1 or 2 units of 10 cultists for objective holding

7-8 Havocs with 4 autocannons

I would also try and get either a unit of bikes or spawn in fast attack, in which case the HQ would ride a bike as well.

I don't play CSM so I don't know the points costs or new rules but this is what I would go with for a TAC 1000pt list.

If I was going to do CSM myself though, it would be Death Guard with loads of Plague Marines, but that is just me!

I'm torn between Khorne and Tzeentch. I like the warp powers but i also love just pure unbridled slaughter. With Tyranids being the army i play the most i'm very assault driven but i think i'd like to take more shooting.

I know that plague maries and Death Guard is the best bet but at the same time i love the flavor of an army sometimes more then their ability and so would probably not do Nurgle just for that reason

I was thinking 1000pt was a good start too. I don't know much about CSM wargear or war gear in general so equiping guys is still a little confusing to me too. With Tyranids option are usually limited so i took one look at the war gear section in the CSM codex and my head started to spin. I think i just have to get used to it

Truth be told I haven't had too much luck with assault heavy lists or with Berserkers. I don't play too many Xenos and the ones I do are usually Tau and I get shot to hell before getting there. If you like the chompy chompy or psyker powers I might look into just straight Daemons instead (if you haven't already invested money in CSM).

As far as CSM go, Khorne isn't bad depending on your meta. If you do go this route, I highly recommend a Khorne Lord with the Axe of Blind Fury on a jugger. Put him with a big wriggling blanket of ablative wounds (spawn aren't bad in this respect). Anything he touches usually decided that this plane of existence isn't really that great anyway and dies. And the spawn can help too (especially those buggers hiding on upper levels of buildings).

If you like list show by the previous poster, try a Mark of Tzeentch which makes 1k sons troops and , although expensive, you have ap3 bolters. SM will be keeping there heads down or far away.

I'd stay away from DP at this point level. It will be a giant red button asking to be pushed, and poof there goes 1/4 of your list (points wise).

Cool yeah i was really leaning towards Thousand Sons, those guys just look awesome with what they can do.

I do want to get into a more shooting oriented army, and with decent dakka mixed with unholy wytch fire i'm sure i could meet my needs. Perhaps Tzeentch is the way to go.

But now i also am REALLY liking what the Noise marines could do for me. Are they really as good as they seem?

Heldrakes, plague marines amd cultists. That's where I would start. Most competitive units in the codex

 Hyrule Hero wrote:
Cool yeah i was really leaning towards Thousand Sons, those guys just look awesome with what they can do.

I do want to get into a more shooting oriented army, and with decent dakka mixed with unholy wytch fire i'm sure i could meet my needs. Perhaps Tzeentch is the way to go.

But now i also am REALLY liking what the Noise marines could do for me. Are they really as good as they seem?

Nurgle is the toughest he offers a lot more survivability. Khorne gives you extra attacks and is often times cheaper than most, tzeentch if probably the most expensive of the marks. Slaanesh is great this edition but people under rate it.
Thousand sons are to expensive for what they do. They're slow and purposeful normal marines that are definitely not worth their points, which...are a lot.

Our heavy support and fast attack are brilliant our elites...lack. Our hq's are what you want them to be, they can be unbridled killing monsters or shooting kings. I'm running a warpsmith atm just to see if he can hold the fort down with 2 vindis. Nurgle is the best choice for now but you don't have to go with him, he just makes the points you invest go a lot farther. I think atm I'm mono nurgle but I don't want to stay that way, for their points noise marines are spectacular those mixed with a slaanesh lord on a steed with bikes or spawn can be an absolute terror. You're going to most likely end up with your own chaos lord, that's what kelly wanted and you're almost pigeon holed into it unless you love the idea of rhinos everywhere. I'm running 2 heldrakes and an 8 squad of bikes atm and I'll eventually have a full set of 10 with a lord riding with them, if you like khorne a lord on juggernaut is an absolute slaughterhouse.

If you like the idea of a daemon prince they're not TERRIBLE, the idea with them is to mix threats if you have something you reeeeeallly want across the board he can be that distraction you need. I've had 4 rhinos make it completely across the board to drop plague marines on tau because the tau were so afraid of a prince and maulerfiend combo hitting the front line. It's all about what you want man but I would stray from tzeentch amongst all the gods (maybe on a daemon prince) but everything else paired with a unit or two that are can openers (khorne) can be awesome to play with. Nurgle is the best, but I know if you mix units in you can have a fluffy list that's more fun than mono nurgle.

I'm having great luck/fun with a 20-man zombie with Typhus.

I keep hearing good things about the Khorne lord on a Juggernaught and that would be a blast to model and paint.

So would berserkers in a rhino be a good investment? they were in my original list of "things to purchase when my wife wasn't looking". And probably a defiler too

 Hyrule Hero wrote:
I keep hearing good things about the Khorne lord on a Juggernaught and that would be a blast to model and paint.

So would berserkers in a rhino be a good investment? they were in my original list of "things to purchase when my wife wasn't looking". And probably a defiler too

Defi is an ok option but like I said, our heavy support choices and our fast attack choices are the most competitive slots in our book. Oblits preds vindis are all great options with oblits leading the pack. Out of 5 games only one has seen my oblits NOT get double their points value back.

The thing with rhinos is target saturation, you absolutely have to give your opponent something much bigger and meaner to think about than that rhino. If you have 10 serkers in a rhino and it gets blown up you have an immediate issue for them because they're footslogging half the board if you have a dirge caster to stop them from being overwatched then that's gone and you'll lose even more of the suqad on the way in. All in all a rhino can become a bigger investment than you think. You have to have a group movement to get your payload delivered. Which, don't take me wrong is an awesome idea but you have to model the whole army around that central concept.

KB< CSM with boltguns traded for ccw, 2 meltaguns, IoV

Since you have a Necron, I suggest you make an allied detachment of CSM.

I have seen a necron player use a similar list to great affect.

DP of Tz, wing, armor, black mace

Cultist

Heldrake

Oblit x3

I unfortunately sold my necrons. I did want to make an allied detachment with Daemons

If you are looking into going Khorne or Tzeentch I would personally build towards fun, either can work. I suggest just taking the strongest options from our fast attack and support to back up your cult troops. For example if you went Khorne (Im assuming you want to use berserkers) you could try a Lord, MoK, on a Juggernaut with some berserkers as your troops choices. Follow that up with bringing either something fast and killy (Maulerfiends, Heldrakes, Bikes) or maintain heavy firepower with Havocs or Obliterators.

If you are looking into a competitive army list than I highly suggest nurgle. I have success with plague marines, cultists, obliterators, drakes, and bikes. All of those seem to mesh well together to create a strong list. Nurgle provides incredible survivability across the board which helps with objectives (T5 Plagues with fearless/fnp is amazing)

Wish you best of luck on your Crusades of Doom.

Thanks! Yeah i like to build my armies for fun not so much competative. And what's more fun the a bunch of zerkers grinding a foe to a gory pulp?

I would start with 2 packs of plague marines adding up to 14 (7*2) and a dark vengeance. And if you got the cash, a heldrake. Then i would shop of the chaos lords plasma pistol and glue on a flamer(burning brand of skalathrax) paint him Nurgly. Paint the chosen also nurgly to be champs for the PM squad. And there you have a very playable, competitive, fun army.

The list would be:

chaos lord - mon, bbos - 110
cultists x20 - flamer x2 - 100 (you would need to convert the stubber to a flamer) these guys footslog up the middle with the lord.
PM x7- plasma x2 - 198
PM x7- plasma x2 - 198
Heldrake - baleflamer - 170

later i would add 15 mor cultists to the blob and a couple rhinos for the pm, maybe a vindicator or some obliterators.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
plague marines*

R you going to be the player who brings 3 drakes? I think it maybe in good taste to use 1 FA slot for spawns.

Even if you do not want plague, I recommend buying 2nd hand CSM which you can latter convert to PM. I recommend 20 with various boltgun or bp ccw, which can be used for havocs, chosen, noise marine, and regular CSM bullet catchers. Skip the back pack to get jumpacks which you can pin and detach on to their backs to become raptors. The key is to make these CSM multipurpose.

What do you guys think is the best TAC list for CSM?

Nothing wrong with spamming drakes... Without the Heldrake or codex is mediocre at best. I'mtired of people complaining about them

Spamming can really take the fun out of a game. I've never used Heldrakes obviously but if it's anything like Tervigon spam army then i'll stay away from it

much worse than tervigon spam as they are like domestos agianst scoring infantry (kills all known things dead) well worth every point you put on them however against other flyers with anti tank wepons they will drop like a stone.

under subject of zerkers use land raiders as rhinos suck with them and if you feeling devious add huron to the list to infitrate them into you opponents face, i dont lie when i say that they kill everything that isnt a tank and some things that are, 12 can kill a trygon ive done it, it works, they also do canifexes if they can sustain the losses, however they must get the charge if they get charged they dont do to good in extended combats.

plague marines have been praised enough already

noise marines are the one point in the codex that can put out HUGE amounts of CHEAP cover ignoring firepower, against all xenos armies that traditionaly need cover they liqidate them,(eldar orks nids guard) if you ever feild heavy bolter havocs you didnt see these also slaneshi table has a power to buff the strength of these weapons can be used as assalt units but you have better choices

thousand sons are not good, Ap3 is nice but you pay through the nose to get it and its never good in TAC were volume of firepower can accomplish the same job and is better against hordes

assault unit auto includes are spawn. they are your workhorses as with nurgle marks they are T6 abuse cover and use the 12 inch movement to close in fast and tie up units that will struggle to hurt them they have* the potental for 8 attacks a peice and sometimes can be poisonous (that tables so much fun), these are worth spamming but sadly they compete with the drake for slots and the drake is 10 pts cheaper than the entire squad with marks but doesnt do what they do.

another point i feel i have to make is the preaditor, its sooo cheap and when kitted well it does its job well, noise marines kill cover camping infantry but sucks aginst 4+ armor, enter dakkapread 117 pts with HB sponsons, warpflame gargoyles and a havoc launcher. enough AP4 for necrons and on top of that you've set them on fire!!
my favortie pread of all time, however for tank hunting load up on lascannons for 140pts of box that finishes its job with no frilly bits attached

But if you need a tank dead enter MAULERFEIND, 4 S10 attacks while charging, moves wicked quick, and if the the S10 didnt kill it it has emercency melta attacks attached to its chest, and at 125pts its target is oftent more expensive then it is.

defilers suck do not take them if you planned for demon alies get the soulgrinder as its everything a defiler wants to be but isnt also its got skyfire and as mentioned drakes dont do well aginst other flyers. however for tank hunting and infantry mowing you have better choices so keep them seperate

i should probably expand this into a tactica but if i did these are my key points

This depends on what models you like mostly, but here are my two cents:

Khorne: Kharn is good but the Lord with Axe of Fury is better. Either with Berzerkers in a Land Raider (and Icon of Wrath), or on a Juggernaut w Spawn or Bikers (also can have Icon of Wrath).
Berzerkers are good, but I find Khorne Marines to be nearly as good, sometimes better, because they can take flamers and melta guns. Khorne Terminators in a Land Raider are also very good.

Tzeentch: Ahriman is a nice HQ because of his Warlord Trait. He would work best Infiltrating w Tzeentch Termies in a Land Raider and using BIomancies and you could put another Sorcerer in there too or Lord w Scrolls of Magnus for outrageously awesome pskyer-dom. This would also work well with a 35 man Cultist unit, having 3 flamers in there, or even a bigger unit of Thousand Sons, which while expensive, are pretty durable and have AP3 MEQ killing power. Tzeentch Oblits are also pretty good but not as good as......

Nurgle: Nurgle Obliterators, can't be Instakilled by S8 weapons, harder to kill with small-arms, all around about the best ranged anti-tank firepower of CSM. Typhus can be good but only in a Land Raider or Deepstriking w Terminators....zombies are good like Cultists, keep them in Reserves usually to run up from the edge to a backfield objective. That said, a Nurgle Lord on a Bike is super fun and tough, and run him w Nurgle Spawn. Plague Marines are always good scoring units or tarpits, a 7 man unit can hold up a BA assault squad for like 3 turns sometimes. (Of course if you will have Allied Daemons, Plaguebearers are way cheaper and can glance tanks to death.)

Slaanesh: While the Initiative boost is nice, I really have found little use for Slaanesh anything, ever. They're too expensive for what they do. Sonic blasters being Salvo just sucks (used to be assault weapons). The psychic powers are decent though, so maybe a Slaaneshi Lord, Sorcerer, and Noise Marines with just a Doom Siren and CCWs in a Land Raider could be pretty good. If a unit of Noise Marines got Enduranced however they become Relentless; only then would they be awesome. Otherwise I'd skip Slaanesh and save them for Daemons if you wanted some glitz.

Forgefiends, meh. Heldrakes, YEAH! Helbrutes, not bad on a Skyshield with the Oblits. Cultists best in meatshield-blobs or cheap as dirt in Reserves. Predators w all Lascannons can be quite cost effective too, put them behind an Aegis Line. Vindicator is cheap and a high-threat priority, though easily killed. Raptors and Warp Talons look cool, but generally not very useful

In conclusion:

Chaos Lord, paint generic evil colors and magnetize arms/weapons, backpack symbols, helmets maybe, for various Marks. I magnetized a torso and legs too so he can ride a bike when I want or a Juggernaut

Sorcerer, same deal as Lord if limited on models and money

Troops: 1 small and 1 big Cultist unit....generic painted CSMs, if done right with magnetized parts easily converted back and forth to various Cult Troops

Elites: stick with Terminators...if you have Abaddon, generic CSMs can be Chosen troops

Fast: Heldrake and Bikers(preferably Nurgle, T6!)

Heavy: Obliterators, Land Raider (w Dirge Caster!), maybe a Vindicator and Predator.(either all Las or AC/HBs/Havoc for anti-hordes)....Maulerfiends look cool but usually die before attacking.

Transports: Infiltrate, Deepstrike, Land Raider, foot, fly.....Rhinos for non-assault Troops, move 12" and Flat Out 6". Rhinos are easy 1st Blood and almost always give it up. But take a Dirge and Dozer on them anyway if you have the 10 points.

good luck!

Thanks everyone! this is giving me some great ideas!

I want to stick to a specific god but it looks more and more that mixing it up is going to be the route i take. I know i want a khorne lord on a juggernaught. Nurgle oblits sound like a must have. And while they seem to have mixed feelings, i want to throw in some thousand sons everynow and then. I'll definitely be getting a helldrake off the bat

It's going to take some playing around to figure it out i guess.

If your going pure CSM the only worth while units(IMO) are Helldrakes, Daemon princes(w/Black Mace), Sorcerers, Cultists and Obliteraters.

If I was you id get some Chaos Daemons as well as they are battle brothers.

Daemons have got so much more going for them than CSM but the two are pretty much one big army.

Yea, daemons with csm is like bread with butter

they have great synergy, the grimore of true names from the demon codex boosts demon invunrable saves to ++3, this is anything with the deamon rule ie oblits, feinds ,possesed and drakes. also they make forgefiends viable as cheap tzeenetch heralds unlock divination psyker powers, twinlinking those massive guns making them great flyer killers. also plaguebearers are good objective campers as they are cheap, can deepstrike, and can take a few shots were cultists will be killed too easy.

best tank killers are tri las preads not oblits as they have lascannon 3 shots at 140pts while oblits need a 210 pts squad minimum to put out that firepower (without marks) and they run away after taking casulties where a pread wont, also preads are immune to small arms fire were as oblits can be killed by massed lasguns, plus oblits are forced to switch weapons after every shot. the good thing about oblits is that they can moveshoot , take cover easier, and have other weapons that can hurt infantry, but they ARE NOT mandatory like they were in the old dex, I live happier without them. terminators with combi meltas can do the strike kill tank route better than oblits (called termicide) because they are cheaper. you have to manage heavy support and fast attack as they are your 2 strongest zones, squease cheap tank killers out of heavy support and use fast attack to kill infantry, those are their jobs so dont try to mix them if you want a competative list.