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Wave Serpents and Falcons are both Skimmer Transports. Page 83 of the rule book states that Skimmers are mounted on Flying Bases.

Page 78 of the rule book states that all Transports on Flying Bases can use the base as an access point.

Does this effectively mean that I can disembark my troops 6" in front of the base?

If you read the rest of the rule on p83 it also states that skimmer bases are ignored for all purposes EXCEPT the skimmer being rammed or assaulted where you can move into contact with hull OR/AND base. Note that this is about skimmers ... not flyers. So when a flyer hovers it becomes a skimmer. A skimmer is not a flyer and follows different rules.

So no. you cant disembark 6" in front of the skimmer transport if it isnt open topped or has access points in the front.

No, he's right. The rules specifically say on 78 that the flying base is an access point and that the transparent base skimmer use is a flying base (83).

The transport rule is more specific than the skimmer rule and therefore "wins".

rigeld2 wrote:
No, he's right. The rules specifically say on 78 that the flying base is an access point and that the transparent base skimmer use is a flying base (83).

The transport rule is more specific than the skimmer rule and therefore "wins".

I stand corrected.

If we can get out 6" from the base, whats the point of vectored engines?

(the one where we can unload and then turn to present a more armoured facing - Just in case I've forgotten the right name for the wargear)

PredaKhaine wrote:
If we can get out 6" from the base, whats the point of vectored engines?

(the one where we can unload and then turn to present a more armoured facing - Just in case I've forgotten the right name for the wargear)

I would assume it gives you some extra distance. 1,5 inches at best. Since you can use your normal access point (being sligthly more towards your opponent) and afterwards turn. Since you cant assault after disembarking this isnt a big advantage though.

Possible situation - Vectored Engines could be used to allow a zooming flyer an extra "turn", if it's one of those transport flyers with a special rule that allows disembarking while zooming.

I know Stormravens can disembark units while zooming, but without the books to hand, I don't know if anything with access to Vectored Engines can...

Do you not need to place the model in B2B with the access point before moving it to within 6"? Is it possible to place the model to the front of the base?

Personally I think the rule is referring to the large "flyer" bases, but RAW does seem to support all flyer bases.

The rule is obviously referncing flyers with transport capacity and not ground based skimmers. Alot have been asked about skimmers and disembarking and its always answered by the access points.

 grendel083 wrote:
Do you not need to place the model in B2B with the access point before moving it to within 6"? Is it possible to place the model to the front of the base?

Personally I think the rule is referring to the large "flyer" bases, but RAW does seem to support all flyer bases.

I agree with this. If you cannot place the model in base-to-base with the "flying base," you must use the access points instead. Thus, he question is answered. I remember this confused me when I first was reading the rules, too.

 shock_at wrote:
The rule is obviously referncing flyers with transport capacity and not ground based skimmers. Alot have been asked about skimmers and disembarking and its always answered by the access points.

You should actually read the quotes on 83 because you're wrong. The rules refer to normal skimmers having a flying base.

83 says to ignore the base except for when the skimmer is being charged, or rammed. No mention of the base as an access point as an exception to this.

As opposed to page 80 where the Flyers get the exception to ignore the base as an access point.

Skimmers ignore the base for access point, but Flyers do not.

 shock_at wrote:
83 says to ignore the base except for when the skimmer is being charged, or rammed. No mention of the base as an access point as an exception to this.

As opposed to page 80 where the Flyers get the exception to ignore the base as an access point.

Skimmers ignore the base for access point, but Flyers do not.

78 is more specific than 83.

pg 78

Transports on flying bases count the base as an access point

pg80

Flyers have flying bases but are effectively ignored except for when

1. Flyer is being assaulted...
2. Models are embarking or disembarking, the base is used as an access point

pg83

Skimmers have flying bases but are effectively ignored except for when

1. being charged or rammed

Flyers have specific instruction that allows them to use the base as an access point. Skimmers do not.

 shock_at wrote:
Flyers have specific instruction that allows them to use the base as an access point. Skimmers do not.

Because you're reading them in the wrong order of specifics.

In General, skimmers ignore their bases except for assault.
Specifically, Transport Skimmers can disembark from the base.

"Transports with flying bases use the base as access point"
Governs Transports with flying bases

Who are transports with flying bases?
1. Flyers
2. Skimmers
3. Future model that is neither of the above but has transport capacity and has a flying base

Flyer rules (pg80) state what restrictions it has for its base and it only applies to flyers.

Skimmer rules (pg83) state what restrictions it has for its base and it only applies to Skimmers.

pg78 is the basic rule where as pg80/83 are advanced rules because pg78 applies to both flyers and skimmers (and any other future transport with a flying base aside from a flyer or skimmer) but pg80 only affects flyers and pg83 affects only skimmers.

Page 83 defines all skimmers. Page 78 defines a subset of skimmers and is therefore more specific than 83.

The fact that 78 also deals with other vehicle types is irrelevant. The rule that addresses skimmers is more specific than the general skimmer rules.

Relatively speaking, a basic rule governs more elements in a set than a subset (advanced rule being the subset).



How can pg83 govern more elements than pgp78 when pg83 only applies to skimmer transports where as pg78 applies to BOTH flyers and skimmers transports

Page 83 applies to all skimmers, not just skimmer transports.

You have to make a normal move when disembarking. You'd have to have some epic scale models in order to fit underneath a Wave Serpent, as normally you can't walk through other units.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
You have to make a normal move when disembarking. You'd have to have some epic scale models in order to fit underneath a Wave Serpent, as normally you can't walk through other units.

This. As the point has already been made before ... and the arguments continue ignoring this point. Each model must move from the access point to it's desired position.

I don't own one - I do know that there's room between the two parts of the hull at the front for a model, does the base not extend to where a models base can touch it?

Regardless, that has nothing to do with whether or not skimmer transports can use the base.

I think this is just confusion over the definition of "flyer base" I've always thought that flyer base refers to the large oval bases, not the clear round skimmer bases. Falcons and Wave Serpents come with the clear round skimmer base, so they aren't mounted on flyer bases at all, and this whole thread becomes a non-issue. It's just a mix-up in semantics.

 alienvalentine wrote:
I think this is just confusion over the definition of "flyer base" I've always thought that flyer base refers to the large oval bases, not the clear round skimmer bases. Falcons and Wave Serpents come with the clear round skimmer base, so they aren't mounted on flyer bases at all, and this whole thread becomes a non-issue. It's just a mix-up in semantics.

Read the relevant pages - skimmers are explicitly on flyer bases, meaning the clear round bases.

 shock_at wrote:
"Transports with flying bases use the base as access point"
Governs Transports with flying bases

Quoting the actual rule might help:

"Transports on flying bases also count the base as an Access Point." (78)

So you can use the access point, or the flying base as they also count the base as an access point.