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Hey everyone, need a quick help!

So, I have noticed I am horrible maintaining my Citadel "Fine Detail" brushes, even after I actually learnt how to do it. I have ... some ... with splayed points and even one that lost most of the sable hair when I was cleaning it. My current "Detail" brush on the other hand seems to hold it's point just fine.

I read these brushes are top ones that are able to take some punishment and if I follow the clean-up rules they'll almost last a lifetime.

How do you feel about this? Are they really that great holding paint with good durability, the whole package they advertise? Do you feel there's some new brushes out there that aren't so well known but you swear they are even better?

Besides that, keeping in focus the Series 7, what's a good Fine Detail equivalent size? Size 1 or 0 look about it for me. Is size 00 or 000 any good for painting those pesky eyes or purity seal script?

I know, lots of questions, but I thank you for your time and patience!

I started using a Series 7 "00". It was my first high end brush. I heard how good they were, but I initialled balked at the price. I thought it would be a waste of money since I burn through cheap brushes almost weekly.

The series 7 is AMAZING. I've been using it for about a month and a half and the difference is unmistakable. I bought a size "2" yesterday. Eventually, I'd like to use them exclusively.

Oohh, excellent, another "brush-burner"

Guess it wouldn't hurt to get one of two of the smaller sizes to try them out. If I feel they are that good I'll probably try to slowly add more sizes into the collection.

I would definitely recommend W & N series 7, they are amazing brushes.

However any brush should last a long time if looked after properly, I have brushes that are over 5 years old that still hold a good point.

The most important thing when using your brushes is to never get paint in the ferrule.

This is the metal collar that seats the brush hairs to the handle.

Once paint dries in there it will unseat the brush hairs causing the brush to lose its point and also causing it to lose hairs too.

Basically you shouldn't be dipping the brush more than two thirds into the paint.

However thinning your paints does help with this as does cleaning regularly.

Always clean your brushes regularly to prevent paint drying on it which again will cause hair loss, but again I always use flow medium and drying retardant so this isn't too much of an issue.

But the most important things are to wash your brushes after use in warm (not hot) water and use brush soap too.

If you don't have proper brush soap you can use regular soap, dish soap/washing up liquid but by far the best thing to use is regular hair conditioner.

This will get all of the paint out of your brush, you'd be amazed at how much more paint there is on it once you use soap.

And then I cannot stress enough, put the plastic collar back on the brush and store your brushes upright.

I hope that doesn't come across a teaching you to suck eggs as I'm sure you know most of that already but following a good cleaning regime will mean that your brushes will last longer but more importantly will mean you get better results with them.

Also, with regard to brush soap, this is the one that evryone will recommend.

I just bought a size 1 off amazon for around $12. Great deal if you ask me.

StraightSilver wrote:


And then I cannot stress enough, put the plastic collar back on the brush and store your brushes upright.

This is not propper care of brushes. The should be stored bristles down untill dry. This itelf can be an issue and requires a stand designed for it. I would atleast lay the flat ont he table untill the bristles have dried. Then put the plastic cap on, and store upright as you say.

Reason for this is that the glue holding the bristles in is not water proof. tipping it up so that the bristles point upwards leads water to pool up in the ferrule and can loosen hairs.

I have a size zero series 7 and I really like it. I would not recommend getting them until you know you can take care of a cheap brush, though.

 TheDraconicLord wrote:
Do you feel there's some new brushes out there that aren't so well known but you swear they are even better?

I wouldn't say "new" or not "so well known", but there are many options. Raphael, DaVinci, Army Painter, etc. Any good quality Kolinski will be worth considering. My personal preference for size "0" is Raphael because of the larger reservoir v. W&N series 7. For small details I have a W&N series 7 "0" mini. It doesn't hold much paint, but for jewels, eyes, etc., it works a treat. In the end, what brand you use is personal preference.

The regular Series 7, as opposed to the Series 7 Miniature, has a decent reservoir similar to the Raphael. I have several of the Series 7 minis and the Raphaels. The Blick brand Studio and Master series are also good Kolinsky brushes at a slightly lower price point than the W&N and Raphael.

If you consider how much longer they last with proper care compared to a cheap brush, even with proper care, the difference in price isn't an issue...until you get into the larger brushes where the amount of the Kolinsky hair required is substantial and you really begin to see where the cost of producing a brush comes from. $10 isn't that much for a really excellent brush and I've never used/needed anything bigger than a 0 in a good brush.

I'm no expert but I have been using "high end" brushes for about 3 years now. I've even tried several brands and what I learned is similar to what Ultra Grey said, there is no best brush just the best brush for you.

Some of the things I learned through my own experience and scouring forums on the subject:

- if you're looking for detail brushes, don't focus on the size but on how sharp the point is. Smaller brushes holds less paint so it'll dry faster on the bristles. My favorite detail brush is the W&N S7 miniature no.3.
- Rinse often and thoroughly. I rinse my brush every time before I reload it with paint. Can become tedious until it becomes second nature. With this practice, at the end of my painting session all I need to do is a final rinse in clean water before keeping my brush.
- Try a double bath system with one or both with a bit of dishwashing liquid in it (as suggeated by Einion over at CMON: http://www.coolminiornot.com/forums/showthread.php?10694-caring-for-brushes).
- Over cleaning a brush may actually shorten it's life. I rarely need to use a brush cleaner with my rinsing method specially since I read somewhere that Master's was originally designed for oil paints and bristle brushes not for delicate Kolinskies.

I still think of kolinsky sables as delicate bristles & I treat them as such. With proper care though they can last for a long time. The current S7s I have I've been using for a little over a year now but I can still make synthetics hook within minutes of use.

Wow, so much useful advice! Thank you all for your sharing your knowledge, I learnt a lot from this

What is the consensus on Rosemary and Co. Brushes? I had heard good things about them and picked some up, and they seem *decent*, but I wonder if I wouldn't get slightly better performance from W&N or Rapahel.

Of course, just getting back into this after years of not doing it, I'm much more inclined to fault the batter than the bat, so...

I really enjoy my rosemary and co brushes. I use those most of the time.
They dont have quite the same spring as a series 7, but other than that are very similar, hold a good point, last ages, decent belly etc.
Using a 2/0 from them a lot lately.

Nice tips here, very helpful! Hadn't yet braved using my Series 7 for fear of not taking care of it properly... so thanks, guys

Personally, I use a mixture of Windsor and Newton Series 7s and Army Painter brushes. Notably, the Army Painter 'regiment' brush makes a good cheap workhorse brush for general work. The W&N though, I use for finer details.

Frankly, Raphael, W&N, Army Painter and even the newer Citadel range are all decent, for the same reason - they use sable hairs, and in the better examples 'kolinsky' sable. It's a particular siberian breed of weasel that has unusually stiff tail hairs; that's what all the fuss is about at the end of the day.

On a sidenote; unless you're diluting your paints, don't bother with pricey brushes - especially with the Raphael/W&N brushes - these are watercolour brushes, and only work with acrylic paints when they are watered down significantly.

If you're new and learning but want something decent, use the Army Painter range. Good quality middle level brushes at good affordable prices.

 Rented Tritium wrote:
I have a size zero series 7 and I really like it. I would not recommend getting them until you know you can take care of a cheap brush, though.

I agree with this 100%. W&N 7 are great, but if you cant take care of your brushes, it's a waste of money.

I dunno;
A windsor and newton series 7 brush costs what; approximatly £7+
While a citadel costs £3-4+

I find that a citadel is useless within one or two painting sesions maybe i had a particularly bad sample)
While the W&N is still good after a couple of years
But even if it only lasted a few months it would beat buying citadels again and again when 2-3 citadels = 1 W&N series 7.

The incredible price everyone goes on about just isnt all that incredible untill you look at sized 7+ brushes (which we never do)

So even with poor brush care I suspect the Series 7 will still win at value in the long run.