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**************REDUNDANT LIST - new list below***************

Hi All,

once again I bring an army list to the wise dakka dakka wizards (should that be crypteks)

this is my suggested 2000 point army, I call it "court heavy"

HQ 1 - Zahndrekh

Royal Court 1
- Stormtek (Voltstaff, Lightening Field)
- Veiltek (Abysal Staff, VoD)
- Pulsetek (Eldritch Lance, Solar Pulse)
- Lord (MSS, WS)

HQ 2 - Overlord (WS, ResOrb, MSS, SW)

Royal Court 2
- Pulsetek (Eldritch Lance, Solar Pulse)
- Stormtek (Voltstaff, Lightening Field)
- Voltek (Voltstaff)

Troops

T1 - Warriors (5) in Ghost Ark with both Pulseteks

T2 - Warriors (15) with Zhandrekh, Stormtek (C2) and Lord (C1) - transport = Nightscythe (disembarked)

T3 - Immortals (10 Tesla Carbines) with Overlord, Stormtek (C1) and Voltek (C2) - transport = Nightscythe (dis/embarked dependent on enemy)

Fast Attack

FA1 - Tomb Blades (5) with Particle Beamers and Shield Vanes

Heavy Support

HS1 - AB with Tesla
HS2 - AB with Tesla
HS3 - AB with Gauss(maybe)

----

Tactics would be to have two blobs, one immortal to move up/deepstrike via scythe, one warrior to move up, warriors take the ghost ark'd support squad with them first couple of turns, then support returns to home objective, deathmarks Veil around problem (elite) units, AB's do what AB's do and tombblades provide 5 blast shots from Jetbike'd goodness for either concentrated fire against other elite infantry, soft vehicles or slightly more dispersed against horde units.

this should mean i have two blob units protected by Res Orbs, plus both have anti assault Lightening Fields, and Anti-Tank Haywire (plus warriors with Gauss) and Zhandrekh making sure my reserves come in if and when my enemies do, if not before, two turns of night fighting to help get into middle distance, and hopefully a good amount of anti air, anti tanks and anti infantry available, plus Zhandrekhs other fun specials to help out.

I'd like this list to be fun to play, while also competitive, happy for any and all suggestions to change, I like the blob idea but know my home objective is left somewhat deepstrikeable with no protection as I move up board, saying that I could deepstrike in the deathmarks and Veil them away to cleanse my home objective should I need to, I think with this much AT I should be able to hurt any fortifications and most AA before the scythes arrive.

2000 point tournes seem to sometimes allow Forgeworld and Super Heavy...am I just going to get blown away in minutes, or does this stand a chance? 3 AB is a bit and this many Crypteks means my force is small, but is that a good trade off for the special weapons and powers they grant me?

thanks as always

Binks

[strike]I'll let others comment on the list as a whole but what has your experiences been with Particle Beamer Tomb Blades? Since they are Heavy 1 Blast, you can't move and shoot them and if the bikes don't move they don't jinx and easily got shot down. Granted this is ok if you view them as disposable but at 24" range, you may have to move them the first turn to be in range and that leaves them open in turn 2 if you go second. I, personally, would look for other ways to allocate those points.[/strike]

Edit: I stand corrected, forgot that bikes had relentless.

thanks, really hadn't thought that through, had read a few things online, but haven't played with them, I thought as they were Jetbikes they could fire and move, but if that's not the case, they're a 200 point hole in my army...will have a look at other options

Bikes are relentless so you can move and shoot if you want.

is that still the case with blast template weapons, or not? as that's the issue with the Particle Beamers I think?

They are relentless so they can shoot as if they didn't move. Can they shoot the particle caster if they don't move (the answer is the same if they do).

Completely forgot bikes had relentless. Please ignore previous comment.

cool, any comments on the rest of the force?

Lets talk general first....

Lets start with the NF, first remember that it hurts you as much or more than it does any other army. Any of your lance shots are pretty much going to be useless that round. The bigger thing to remember is things like tau, de, IG have ways to get past NF and out range you.. so they get the benefit of ripping you a new one while you slumber forward. Alpha striking armies like daemons care not for your NF.. they will be eating your face on T2.

Troops, you have 3 scoring units for most games which is a little thin. A few rounds of ap3 or better shooting will leave nothing more than your overlord or warlord standing. ( Tau, eldar, CSM/helchickens) with that few number of troops you need to either put some in reserve or put small groups in the NS to hold them out till later in the game. Two of your 3 groups are offensive weapons in this list.... its just a lot of risk.

Other slots. Triple Abs, well they are just good... nothing to add there. I have done a few proxys with the tomb blades and they didn't do that great of a job for me. Its only a blast marker so your not going to hit a whole lot with it and at ap5... even most general troops will get a save. Having the 3+ save does give them a little more life but they still die very easy. We don't get any of the cool movement attacks so really don't get a lot out of the turbo boost. You could field 5 destroyers for the same points and get 10 ap 3 shots.. preferred enemy.. the same stat line and they are just as fast. They suffer the same issue of small unit size and prone to dying but are more offensive than the tombs.

Would you suggest destroyers or another troops and scythe as being the best option?

Edit removed

It is really up to you.... it is about how you want to play.. I would say at 2k to either add another troop for protect the ones you have a little more.

If you are looking for mobile shooty, I would take the destoryers over the tomb blades, if it were my list. As they relate to each other, I like the destroyers more.

I run three heavies when I run my destroyers. But that is because I have list where I have 6 of them behind an adl and some warriors manning a quad gun for a mega shooty list.

*********REDUNDANT LIST - New list below**************

Ok, so I've work on a possible rehash of the suggested listing, messed about with squad numbers and think this might work ok?

1995 points

HQ 1 - Zahndrekh

Royal Court 1

Stormtek - Volt Staff and Lightening Field
x2 Destructek - Eldritch Lance
Veiltek - adysal staff and Veil of Darkness

HQ 2 - Overlord - Warscythe, Rez Orb, Mindshackle Scarabs, Sempiternal Weave

Royal Court 2

Destructek - Eldritch Lance

Troops 1 - 15 Warriors supported by Overlord and Stormtek

Troops 2 - 5 Warriors supported by Destructek in Ghost Ark

Troops 3 - 5 Immortals supported by Zhandrekh (home objective holders)

Troops 4 - 8 Immortals supported by Destructek in Night Scythe

Troops 5 - 7 Immortals supported by Destructek in Night Scythe

Elites 1 - 5 Deathmarks supported by Veiltek

Elites 2 - 1 Triarch Stalker possibly fitted with twin linked heavy gauss cannon

Heavy 1 - Annihilation Barge

Heavy 2 - Annihilation Barge

Heavy 3 - Annihilation Barge

---

Tactics would be:

Leave Zhandrekh and his Immortals at home objective, he may not always have line of sight on enemy to grant counter tactics, but can still do all his other specials

Warrior Blob moves up supported by the Ghost Ark for fresh Necrons via repair barge - I am hoping that 15 gauss flayers moving up the board takes a fair amount of the punishment, and that my Rez Orb and Repair Barge combo keep me on my feet

Keep the Night Scythe troops in reserve, bring them in once enemy skyfire looks shaken-up to take objectives and add extra fire power via Eldrich Lances

Sit Triarch Stalker at the back of the army and offer twinlinking on big units/tanks to rest of the army alternatively keep heat ray and use as a tin can opener moving up through cover

Deep-Striking Deathmarks use Hunters from Hyperspace to deal with problem units,

Annihilation Barges move up with main warrior blob and do what they were designed to

- to me this seems nice and shooty, should be fun to play and shouldn't end up being smashed up too quick, it should be able to take out metal boxes, and deal with massed ranks, against high armour armies it will struggle, but hopefully the shear number of shots should mean they start to die, and stay dead...while I get back up, its not going to win a tournament without some seriously lucky dice, and tactics, but I hope its competitive, and fun...

Okay, couple of things.. I like more troops for sure... the stalker is almost going to have to take the HGC... given what is on the board.. it will be a high priority target. Plus, the TL gives your shooty..more shooty...

I'm still not the biggest fan of that many points in the NS. 325 points locked in a NS.... that could be on the board benefiting from the TL on the HGC if you so choose... Besides the benefit you get from the flyers weapons.. I use mine in two ways...one.. drop of an aggressive force with a purpose... D&D or gauss/stormtek combos that have a job to do... or I use it to hide small units of troops for objectives or grabbing things like line breaker.

Triarch Stalker seemed good, if expensive, so expected it to get blown up in close range,

regarding NS I can see your point, its one of the reasons for taking Zahndrekh and not just a vanilla Over/Lord as he can get the scythes on with in the oppositions turn should their be the chance, as well as trying to bring them on in my own, so they could in theory arrive turn 2.1 and drop their cargo etc turn 2.2 if I get luck with his reserves, and he get unlucky with ADL and skyfire.

how about reforming the two Immortal wings so one has the stormtek and is slightly larger with gauss, while the other is a smaller tesla objective ?

the reason for wanting more than one scythe, bar the extra TD fun is that my local GW manager has said they will get shot down on their own, maybe this is him trying to get £60 of flyer out of me rather than £30, but something of "they'll pick one flyer to attack...the other one might get through" seemed to make sense

if the local meta seems flyer aware, should I just scrub the night scythe and have 200 points for more shootiness

**********CURRENT SUGGESTED LIST*********

After a long time staring into the abyss, I've thought about the suggested problems mentioned with my list, and have gone in a completely different direction, I'm thinking it's a lot more shooty, but not sure if that's ok, any comments welcome.

I'm thinking at this point that 2000 point is not likely to be a tournament amount, most around me seem to be 1850 or 1500, however I want to know if this list can stand up to some punishment, and if it'll send some armies packing...from watching miniwargaming and other Batreps it does seem that 6th is about the number of shots you can get off, anything will go down eventually to a wall of fire, and with that in mind, I bring this list:

HQ - Overlord with WS, MSS, RO, SW

Royal Court

2 x Lords with WS, MSS, RO, SW
1 x Chronotek with all upgrades
2 x Haywireteks with Voltaic Staffs
1 x Veiltek with Abyssal Staff and Veil of Darkness

Troops - 5 Warriors in GA
Troops - 5 Warriors with GA
Troops - 15 Warriors joined by Overlord
Troops - 15 Warriors joined by Lord
Troops - 10 Immortals joined by Lord

FA - 6 x Wraiths with 2 x Whip Coils

HS - AB
HS - AB
HS - AB

***tactics***

on of the 5 man warrior squads guard home objective and smile sweetly

the Warrior Blobs walk up-field with the ghost arks (1 still with the 5 man warrior squad in) in support hopefully Rez-Orbing/Repair Barging themselves back to full strength each turn, leave behind 5 man warriors on any uncontested objectives while the blobs and arks move onward

Immortals join the forward moving army and contest/hold tougher objectives

wraiths I expect to take a huge amount of punishment due to peoples concern about them in CC, saying that 6 I hope if going through cover should be able to get to CC

AB spam moves up the table in support of the blobs, and hopefully will take out aircraft too

Finally is the last part of my Royal Court, to a certain extent this is a suicide squad similar to some drop-pod units used by Space Wolves, the 2 Volteks, Chronotek and the Veiltek DS across the board 1st turn in order to wreck any important armour the enemy have, as said, this will become a suicide mission because once they've flattened a Land Raider (or equivalent) in one go, the enemy will want some revenge, but as long as a high points unit is chosen as the target, I should get their points back, and score first blood

as well as being (I hope) an amassed wall of Gauss and Tesla fire, this army comes in much cheaper than those tried before (even cheaper if I convert the crypteks)

am I on to a bad idea, or is this a good way of bringing a lot of shots and resurrection to the game table?

thanks as always

Binks

Red Orbs are only worth it on maximum squads. The immortals are not a great backfield unit with 24" range. That's a lot of points spent on just surviving (260 with lord is too much). I'd drop them to add to your wall of fire.

I'd then consider a chronometron tek for the suicide unit. The reroll for deep strike just ups your chances of getting that FB. Plus if you don't end up needing it for DS you can use it on a stormtek EL roll just upping your chance of getting another tank kill with the unit and thus further helping them get their points back whilst also forcing your opponent to deal with them.

Ok, so how about I loose the 2 Destructeks, and swap them for a Chronotek with all the upgrades, as the 3+ invul might be useful to help keep them alive in assault, my only issue with this is it makes my suicide squad 190 points, which means their more likely to get 1st blood, but also end up being less of a cheap throw away unit, and become something i want to last into the next turn at least to hold up enemy forces, or even increase their points yield, having said that, they would have a 3+ invul character, followed by all having 5+ ever living rolls, so could suicide and then resurrect...I suppose...

next up swap my Immortals for back markers and use them as part of the fire wall, leaving behind 5 warriors to hold home objective, means I'll still have 5 warriors in an ark to dump on another objective, and have 3 large units with Rez Orbs walking up the table

on which, I see your point regarding Rez Orbs only being useful on full size squads, but I'm sure someone else (maybe Roci?) said they usualy made their points back on anything above 10 warriors, and the immortal is at full strength, from what I understand 15 warriors with Rez Orb and Repair Barge is a really tough nut to crack, an extra 5 warriors in each blob would be great, but leaves me without small objective holders, unless I cut up the immortals, which means the Rez orb is no longer important, maybe I'd be better keeping Rez Orbs, but lowering the cost of the Lords by loosing SW off them?

Not enough troop models in this army, add that 1/3 of them may possibly be in a Nightscythe as well, if it gets shot down then they are back in reserve. Good as your dudes do not get blown up, but bad as if the objectives are in the middle of the table, then you will have a right slog to get them.

Hi Mercer,

thanks for your response, but I think it's about a previous list, the one I put up earlier has 5 troop choices and no Night Scythes, I've been put off them by comments such as yours and watching Batreps where they fly on the table, and are destroyed just as quickly

any comments on the current incarnation of the list?

p.s. I'll edit down the previous incarnations as to stop any further misunderstandings

Sorry, man, I missed that.

I would consider ditching the Immortals. They are a nice unit, but what are they adding the Warriors and Ghost Arks don't? WIth their points you could get more Wraiths, as you said yourself the Wraiths will take a beating.

Hope that helps