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Hi all, just wondering what (as the title says) some useful general tactics are for IGvs daemons? I did a search but I 'm finding it hard to find threads dealing with the latest daemon book. I ask because I was playing a 1000 point game with mech IG today and I was near-tabled. We called it at the end of turn 3 as I had no scoring units left. I wasn't able to get a look at their Codex so I was having to look up their statlines in the BRB, which obviously doesn't include wargear, etc so I was winging it.

I'm thinking maybe mech wasn't the way to go and that a platoon might have been better. The mission we rolled was - fortunately for me, I thought - Big Guns Never Tire. I had 3 vet squads in Chimeras with two melta guns each, two Demolishers and a Manticore. Maybe not the most competitive list, but I wanted to try something more about rushing up the board than how I usually play IG.

It doesn't help that I lost a Demolisher before I'd even had my first turn (because of the Warp Storm table - where an 8 on the table means the daemon player rolls a D6 for each enemy model and on a 6 it takes D6 STR 6 rending hits) and then on the next turn my Manticore lost its launcher - still with 3 rockets waiting to go - to the same thing.

So, I didn't know what to expect, I had too few units to cover the board effectively, not as much mobility as the daemons, and I found that being on the unlucky end of Warp Storm is not a good thing. So that's why I'm leaning towards platoons. It seems that they have the chance to put out more wounds per turn while being able to potentially absorb something I can't rule out: the effects of Warp Storm. I don't like to play "waves of men" IG but maybe I should give it a try?

I haven't used IG very much in this edition so please offer suggestions if I'm talking rubbish. Cheers!

the Daemons codex is proving to have a lot of internal balance, so it would really help to know what he was running.

That said, the general Daemon weakness is volume of fire. Army wide invulnerable saves mean that high rate of fire, high ap weapons are generally better than low rate of fire/low ap weapons. Also, Manticores and Demolishers are actually both great, as they can ID the majority of the Army.

Beating Daemons is a lesson in target priority. A good Daemon list will have the Grimoire and various psychic buffs, kill the buffing units, not the ones gaining the benefit from the buffs.

Lastly, you just got unlucky on Warp Storm. While a good Daemon build will rarely be disadvantaged by the Storm, it will rarely score two vehicle kills in two turns.

Volume of fire is key to defeating Daemons. Thing is, most of the scoring units are pretty fragile, so even the standard issue Imperial flashlight is capable of doing some good. Large blast templates can be tough to handle as well.

Be aware of the varioius psychic combos that you may be getting hit with. Good thing for you is most Daemon players take the bare minimum of codex powers, and generally stick with the BRB list, so read up on the Divination, Biomancy, and Telepathy power lists.

Does your opponent play a small army with lots of the big daemons, or does he go horde with loads of foot troops? Both are viable builds and both have completely different sets of challenges.

I hate to be "that guy" but the best tactic against daemons I've found is vendettas and vultures. They have the skyfire and power/volume to take out even the toughest FMCs and the annoying gribbles.

I also like medusas/demolishers. Being able to ID daemon princes (and fateweaver) is so useful, and really helps with area control.

I have mostly been using 2 different strategies.

1) Vendettas, just shoot them with vendettas. I focus on the grimoire one and then shoot him until he is dead. Then move on to fatey and down the line. Shoot the vendettas first, then the ML on the chimeras (only if there is nothing better to flamer, i.e. the troops), and then the melta/lasguns. I almost always get 1 grounded from all that and the grounded one should be hammered with the manticore/demolishers/ID first to conserve fire power for the other enemies.

2) MSU foot guard. I keep my foot swarm split into 10 man squads against this enemy so I can force more grounding tests. You are almost assured to ground at least 1 with all those shots. From then on it is the same target priorities as the other method. Remember that FRFSRF can almost ensure a 10 man squad sticks a hit to a FMC.

I love manticores for their utility against MC as it doubles many of them out. Demolishers/Medusas can also be great for this.

Volume of fire. T3 bloodletters fall faster to lasgun fire than ever (my brother plays Daemons). Horrors sizzle to blast and flamer templates. I've found Hellhounds to be great at putting on woulds with its template, but staying out of assault range, are both key for killing daemons.

Manticores are great, Vendettas are great, and massed multi-lasers on chimeras are great.

What does your opponent field?

tbh, if he is running the fleshhound rush you will need lots of high str weaponry as they are quite immune to volume of fire once they get buffed with Grimoire/ psychic buffs.

I would say:

Blob is good as you will win war of attrition against weakened units and you have the shots to weaken t3 deamons.

Manticores, put 3 of them they are so good, they will id dogs,deamonprinces or glance/penetrate soulgrinders.

Vendetta's, to shoot those flying threats down, HB sponsons to add the rate of fire when shooting in troops.

Chimeraes with multilasers and HB will pump out decent shots and give you speedbumbs.

Aegis line, to hide behind, they have almost no units with assualt grenades, will spare you a lot attacks

OK, nice to see that this thread has got some detailed answers!

I left my Vendetta at home, unfortunately. One thing I wonder is, seeing as they all have invulnerable saves anyway, is low AP really that important against them? Would it be good to use cheap multi-shot higher STR weapons like autocannons? Might an Exterminator or Punisher be worth a try?

Here are the units that were used against me. Now, I should point out that the last time I played against Daemons was two years ago so I know nothing about their new book. I'm not sure what wargear, powers etc the units had because my opponent wouldn't show me his list or tell me what psychic powers, upgrades etc he had picked (so I only found out what a given power or piece of gear was when it was about to be used on me) and wouldn't let me look at his Codex. That's why I had to look up statlines in the BRB and why I was unsure of what to go after each unit with, not to mention being on the back foot from turn 1 due to Warp Storm (I went second). I'm so underinformed I didn't even know you could ID a prince, I thought they were Eternal Warriors.

Here's what I know:

Skullcannon

Herald of Tzeentch on Burning Chariot (I know one of the powers it had was the one that can grant your squad FNP if it doesn't wound, don't know about the others)

Daemon Prince (wings, 3+ save, STR 10 in CC - don't know which of these are bought upgrades)

3 Flamers

10 Bloodletters with a Herald, I think they had a psychic power but didn't find out which

10 Plaguebearers with Herald - they had a psychic power which was a shooting attack

Soul Grinder with the tongue attack

He was phenmomenally lucky to rend youe leman russ away, the s10 in close combat is more likely due to him utilising the smash USR. The khorne herald definitely didn't have a psychic power, you might be confusing them with the loci. Its quite a weak daemons list all things considered, for your first two turns the only threat you have is the DP and they are quite fragile

I was in GW earlier and had a look through the Daemon book. If I'd known more about the army I would simply have dropped a Manticore shot on the HQ or sent my other Demolisher over to deal with it.

Thought (at the time, I know better now) that Bloodletters were T4. Again, the more you know...

Sounds like foot platoons with armour backup could be worth a go. However, I also think the list I had could have done well if I'd been more aggressive. And of course I couldn't help the Warp Storm incident (only one pen, but the result rolled was "Explodes").

Honestly your list should be fine against that. You didn't know enough about the opponent and so your targeting priority was off. Look through the codex a few more times and you should do fine.

Though it was bad form of the opponent not to let you look at his dex. That is just terrible gamesmanship.

You don't need anything special to handle demons. A regular TAC list will suffice. If you've got enough anti-tank, you've got enough high-S shots to handle a monstrous creature or two (even if they fly - say hello to grounding tests), and if you've got enough anti-horde, then you've got enough shots to handle a 5++ army.

It seems like your problem had more to do with bad luck than anything else. Without a bit more detailed information, it would be hard to say why, though. Perhaps you could take some pictures at your next game and write up a battle report?

Your list really doesn't seem bad at all. Most likely, the reason you lost is because he got two very lucky rolls and instagibbed your two biggest hitters. Honestly, sounds like it was a bit of a fluke more than anything

 Fezman wrote:

10 Bloodletters with a Herald, I think they had a psychic power but didn't find out which

Somewhere, Khorne is crying.

I've been playing a 2000pt mono-tzeentch list for a while now and I find that any of my fliers getting grounded is pretty scary. I usually save my 1 free reroll for that. So, multiple small units forcing grounding tests is pretty annoying.

Not much advice, but hey, anything helps I suppose.

So it looks like daemons are vulnerable to weight of fire, high strength shooting, artillery - in other words, IG seem very well equipped to deal with them. I'm honestly surprised by how easy it would be to ID or wreak havoc in many of their units, invulnerable saves notwithstanding. Better get some Skyfire in there too.

As for Warp Storm, it seems too random to be worth making list changes over.

I am reading here you guys suggest vendettas, manticores or demolishers against daemons. I do not think they would help with problems I have with Daemons. I have two questions.

How would you stop a Great Daemon with his WS10, T6, 3+ armour, 5++ rerollable, 4+ FNP, several wounds, flying? In the battle of 1000 points?

How would you stop a unit of screamers with invisibility spell on them?

 Lothar wrote:
I am reading here you guys suggest vendettas, manticores or demolishers against daemons. I do not think they would help with problems I have with Daemons. I have two questions.

How would you stop a Great Daemon with his WS10, T6, 3+ armour, 5++ rerollable, 4+ FNP, several wounds, flying? In the battle of 1000 points?

How would you stop a unit of screamers with invisibility spell on them?

TO kill a flying daemon all you need is enough lasguns to make him take a grounding test, then zap him with plasma until he goes away. Works every time for me.

As for screamers, throw some sacrificial units in their way to tie them up, and when they win combat, shoot them. (Or throw in GK allies to make using psychic powers suicidal for them).

I agree, speed bumps and grounding tests handle both of those units just fine.

You don't need to change the list you field, just the way you field it.

Pask in a bolter boat punisher. Puts out enough wounds to drop horde daemons easily and if he brings daemon princes you will have the advantage in rerolling to wound if you dont move against monstrous creatures. Very nice deal!