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So it says in one of the HH books (First Heretic I think) it states that one if the lost legions was consolidated into the ultramarines and that's why they were so large... Now... Wouldn't that mean that almost half of the Ultramarines don't even have Guilliman's Geneseed and many if the 41st millenniums successor chapters don't either but have the Geneseed of a lost Primarch?

The exact quote would be nice to see, if you can. Bearing in mind this is Black Library, it's probably nonsense. I know everything is canon and nothing is canon, etc etc blah blah blah... but that never comes up as the reason for the Ultramarines' size in the Codexes, which are generally considered the most reliable source.

Instead, the main reason given is the Ultramarines' prosperous recruiting methods, having an entire sector to recruit ideal candidates from, rather than just one suitable world as with many of the other Legions.
What's also mentioned is that while some of the other Legions were much closer in size during the Great Crusade, the Ultramarines didn't suffer anywhere near as many losses during the Heresy itself as events conspired to keep them far away from Terra when Horus struck.

The Ultramarines incorporating two other chapters was explained by Aaron Dembski-Bowden (the author of that book) as in universe speculation between 2 word bearers. So don't take it as canon

Yes, it could be inferred.

As said above

A) It's Black Library... they take creative licenses

B) It's "in-character-conversation" by a character who i) couldn't/wouldn't possibly know for sure and ii) has all the motives in the world to denigrate the Ultramarines

It's a fun theory, if you wanna ride with it.

I wouldn't ever expect anything (!) about the lost Legions to be definitively nailed down by GW in any shape or form

As PredaKhaine allude, this isn't actually fact.

It was an in universe conversation amongst two Word Bearers; the legion that were the most distant, and most hated the Ultramarines. They're something of a biased source. Even the way they mention it is speculative; they're gossiping, trading rumours. No where does The First Heretic (or an other novel) state that the Lost Legions were amalgamated into the Ultramarines.

The Ultramarine's size is easily explainable by their unique circumstances. They rule over an empire, a prosperous, productive and loyal one. It's no wonder they have the largest legion with such a large recruiting pool and infrastructural base.

It wouldn't make any sense if they were a small legion.

Out of universe, Aaron Demski-Bowden, the author of The First Heretic, has stated it's just idle speculation.

 Zweischneid wrote:


I wouldn't ever expect anything (!) about the lost Legions to be definitively nailed down by GW in any shape or form

Many thought they'd never detail the Horus Heresy either, and yet we're going to end up with 50 +/- books on it before the end.

After they deal with The Scourging in some large series of books, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they did detail the Lost Legions, eventually.

Even if the Ultramarines did pick up some of the mysterious lost legion marines, who's to say they kept them catalogued to know never to reuse their geneseed on later Ultramarine initiates?

After reading Deliverance Lost I think maybe 50% of loyalists are actually Alpha Legion.

It would explain why some supposedly Ultramarine successors diverge so much from their founders. But there's no proof on the books, at least not any books we get to read.

Still, if it were so I imagine the AdMech would know how to keep the geneseed separate. Chapters wouldn't be made out of mixed stock, they would make sure all the initial 1000 sets of implants are of the same heritage.

Personally, I am under the impression that the differences between a Chapter are chiefly a result of its own culture, as influenced by its founders and the world they recruit their troops from. Of course, geneseed can play some role in making one Chapter different from another - be it via obvious mutation, or merely a slight tendency towards acting in a different manner (by influencing the chemical balances of the body) ... but the same can be said by the local population's own genes (which would mix with the implants). Together with the hypno-indoctrination, which (if we were to go by Codex fluff) has different rates of success depending on how well maintained a Chapter keeps its equipment and how well trained its Apothecaries are (science -> mysticism), means that the geneseed is really just one of many factors that "define" a Chapter.
Although obviously it is the one most important to its members, as a matter of pride.

Super Ready wrote:I know everything is canon and nothing is canon, etc etc

The actual wording was "everything and nothing is true" - small, but important difference. Any source of fluff is equally valid, it's just that its contents are not guaranteed to be fact. Regardless of whether it was a conversation between characters, or 3rd person observer description.

But as Zweischneid said, it's a fun theory, so if you like it...

 Laughing God wrote:
So it says in one of the HH books (First Heretic I think) it states that one if the lost legions was consolidated into the ultramarines and that's why they were so large... Now... Wouldn't that mean that almost half of the Ultramarines don't even have Guilliman's Geneseed and many if the 41st millenniums successor chapters don't either but have the Geneseed of a lost Primarch?

It was rumored by Word Bearers it was never confirmed to be true.