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Hey folks,

I have a short question: Deny the witch says, that a unit "that contains a psyker" get +1 to deny the witch. I couldn't find further reference for that specific word in the BRB so I guess it isn't meant in a specific way.

Now the "problem": If a unit is embarked upon a transport, does the transport "contain" this unit and can therefore a Chimera "contain" a Primaris Psyker?

The definition of the word "to contain" strengthens that assumption,

I can see where you're coming from with this and it's a good thought, but my gut's saying no as the attack's targeting the transport and not the unit within.

Actually my guts say the same (and it is not me who asks initially, in a German forum this question came up), but I can't deny it just yet. So I am asking you if this context is possible.

You need to find out if the unit contains a psyker. In context this can only mean "is a member of"

The psyker is contained within the vehicle, but is not a member of the vehciles unit

@nos

Right, so the vehicle won't get +1 DtW?

Because the definition I found had two possible meanings with example sentences:

Def 1:
contain or hold; have within

"This can contains water"

Def 2:
include or contain; have as a component

"The record contains many old songs from the 1930's"

Now why exactly is Definition 1 wrong if I substitute can with vehicle and water with a psyker? Water isn't part of the can imho.

So the psyker doesn't necessarily have to be part of the unit according to definition 1.

But maybe I am missing something (at least I hope so)...

Because, contextually, "contains" is in reference to a units membership. And a vehicle is not a member of the unit.

I think you are missing the context. Without having looked up the quote, "contains" almost certainly means "has as a member". Units in a vehicle are (I think) universally referred to as embarked on.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
A vehicle is not a member of the unit.

More than that: the vehicle is not a unit. It is a transport.

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
A vehicle is not a member of the unit.

More than that: the vehicle is not a unit. It is a transport.

100% incorrect.

It is a unit, that is of type (vehicle) subtype (transport)

(If you claim a vehicle is not a unit, then you cannot shoot at it, ever - "pick a target unit" (not exact) being oneof the first steps in shooting)

OK so the example sentence of def1 is contextually entirely wrong. OK that is good to know

Thanks for the input I will answer accordingly then in our forum.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
[
100% incorrect.

It is a unit, that is of type (vehicle) subtype (transport)

(If you claim a vehicle is not a unit, then you cannot shoot at it, ever - "pick a target unit" (not exact) being oneof the first steps in shooting)

My bad, you're right. More than that, rulebook says specifically that a vehicle is a unit. ("LIke other units, vehicles..." etc). They don't say so specifically of transports, but it's obvious that they are a subset of vehicles as you say.

The rulebook doesn't answer the OP's question. But there's an implication that the transport doesn't get the +1, because the rulebook says specifically that a psychic hood can protect the vehicle he's in. If a non-psychic hood psyker had the ability, the implication is that they would say so. And common sense implies what Nosferatu said.

I would say psychic hood would protect, regular psyker no

Psychic Hood is fine, as long as it's within the specified range. A character and a transport vehicle are never members of the same unit, though, so embarking on one doesn't allow a psyker to give it extra DtW goodness unless he has some special wargear like a hood.

The vehicle is a model. It does not matter what it contains as far as the unit is concerned. The unit is composed of the members within it. The psyker is in fact contained withing the transport but that does not mean he is contained within the unit (even if the unit consists of only one model). Such status is only achieved via associations made in accordance with the rules governing units, not by physical location.