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In terms of Air Superiority, which army has the best fighter jet?

What's a close second?

IG: Vendetta. It has the pricetag of a space marine dreadnought but with *more* firepower, flying, and transport capacity. Epic lulz were had.

There aren't really any *close* seconds. The Stormraven and Eldar flier can do some damage, but are seriously flawed in comparison.

What about FW models? Aren't there any fliers that are made specifically for Air to Air combat?

Eldar Nightwing fluff wise is supposed to the the best iirc.
However its ingame stats dont match up much AV10/10/10 for its points costs.

I know very little of FW models because my playgroup frowns on it.

I've had pretty good success with Stormtalons. Skyhammer Missiles are cheap, and go well with Assault Cannons when you get close enough.

Not as good as a Vendetta, but what is?

The Forgeworld Nightwing (Eldar) is pretty awesome at air to air. 3+ jink save, vector dancer, BS4, 2 Bright Lances, 2 Shuriken Cannons, at 145 pts? Sure it's only AV10 with 2 HPs, but the maneuverability of it can't be overlooked.

Also, for the price, the Night Scythe is pretty good. Sure you need a Warrior squad to get it, but 100 pts is well worth it and now you have a troop unit to boot!

I forgot about the Stormtalon. My apologies. It's turreted weapon is quite useful for targeting rear flier armor. I guess it might struggle against Stormravens, but yeah........

Edit: Thanks to the MoD who found the spamling and eliminated its foul taint.

I'm thinking about someday adding MiG's to my Apoc / Casual list for the role of Air Superiority.

Any idea's of what would work? I saw your idea about the Stormtalon, what about Nephilim Jetfighters? Are they ok?

I already have some DA's in my competitive list, but I don't know anyone who's got an opinion on them.

Unfortunately I have no experience with Nephilim. I'm mainly a fan of Stormtalons because the converted one I made looks like an A-10.

Plus they have nice rules and are flyers I consider to be fair.

Vendettas are easily the best for air superiority. Helldrakes are equally, if not more, deadly to everything else, but a Vendetta would blow a Helldrake out of the sky no problem. If yo has a Vendetta, yo contolz da skies, man.

 The Shadow wrote:
Vendettas are easily the best for air superiority. Helldrakes are equally, if not more, deadly to everything else, but a Vendetta would blow a Helldrake out of the sky no problem. If yo has a Vendetta, yo contolz da skies, man.

See that's the thing, Vendetta's are certainly appealing, but Nephlim Fighters also have twin linked lascannons and can treat weapon destroyed results as Immobilized.... meaning that if I even roll on the damage chart against another flier I have a 2/3's chance of putting it nosedown to the ground - without modifiers.

how about thunder bolts, avengers, and lightnings?

I don't know their rules or battlefield role! Nor have I had any experience fighting them.

 DemetriDominov wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:
Vendettas are easily the best for air superiority. Helldrakes are equally, if not more, deadly to everything else, but a Vendetta would blow a Helldrake out of the sky no problem. If yo has a Vendetta, yo contolz da skies, man.

See that's the thing, Vendetta's are certainly appealing, but Nephlim Fighters also have twin linked lascannons and can treat weapon destroyed results as Immobilized.... meaning that if I even roll on the damage chart against another flier I have a 2/3's chance of putting it nosedown to the ground - without modifiers.

2 things though:
It has a single TL lascannon
The price you pay for the Vendetta

 Ratius wrote:
Eldar Nightwing fluff wise is supposed to the the best iirc.
However its ingame stats dont match up much AV10/10/10 for its points costs.

You really need to see the Nightwing in action, my friends cry and scream cheese all night long when they face these. I think these are the best anti flyer there is right now that is not appoc. It has agile, and vector dancer. armed with 2 Bright lances and 2 Shuriken Cannons (now Rending) stealth and shrouded +2 Jink Save anybody???

I run 3 of these and watch any other flyers cry because you can get behind them the second turn they are on the board and there is nothing they can do about it. Rear armor typically 10 is pretty much you die to a Night Wing. Play with these a few times and you will quickly understand that this flyer is very much worth the points and lives up to the fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Matt2429 wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
Eldar Nightwing fluff wise is supposed to the the best iirc.
However its ingame stats dont match up much AV10/10/10 for its points costs.

You really need to see the Nightwing in action, my friends cry and scream cheese all night long when they face these. I think these are the best anti flyer there is right now that is not appoc. It has agile, and vector dancer. armed with 2 Bright lances and 2 Shuriken Cannons (now Rending) stealth and shrouded +2 Jink Save anybody???

I run 3 of these and watch any other flyers cry because you can get behind them the second turn they are on the board and there is nothing they can do about it. Rear armor typically 10 is pretty much you die to a Night Wing. Play with these a few times and you will quickly understand that this flyer is very much worth the points and lives up to the fluff.

Vendetta has 3 TL lascannons.

Hmm.. that certainly sounds interesting lol. That may be what I'm looking for. It even looks a bit like a MiG.

This:



A bit of converting, and paint it up in my army colors and get something [kinda like] to this:

Without the points cost factored;
1) Crimson Hunter (CWE-FW)
2) Nightwing (CWE-FW)
3) Lightning Bolt (IG-FW)
4) Storm Raven
5) Vendetta
6) Vulture (IG-FW)

With points cost factored;
1) Vendetta
2) Nightwing (CWE-FW)
3) Crimson Hunter (CWE-FW)
4) Lightning Bolt (IG-FW)
5) Storm Raven
6) Vulture (IG-FW)

Vector dancer is much better than people would have you believe.

 DemetriDominov wrote:
What about FW models? Aren't there any fliers that are made specifically for Air to Air combat?

Yes. And the Vendetta is better than all of them.

 DemetriDominov wrote:
What about FW models? Aren't there any fliers that are made specifically for Air to Air combat?

Crimson Hunter wins hands down in Air to Air Combat.

2 48" S8 AP2 shots and 2 36" S8 AP1 Lances

It rerolls failed attempts to damage against fliers.

It can be BS5 for a cost.

It can be given Night Fighting (situational) and a 5+ Precision shot...nice for destroying a particular Vendetta/Valkaryie in a squadron.

And Vector Dancer allowing you to fly circles around other fliers.

The Avenger is definitely capable.

If the Niphlim had outflank it would be NASTY. I feel like it should with costing 180 and all...

You really need to see the Nightwing in action, my friends cry and scream cheese all night long when they face these. I think these are the best anti flyer there is right now that is not appoc. It has agile, and vector dancer. armed with 2 Bright lances and 2 Shuriken Cannons (now Rending) stealth and shrouded +2 Jink Save anybody???

I run 3 of these and watch any other flyers cry because you can get behind them the second turn they are on the board and there is nothing they can do about it. Rear armor typically 10 is pretty much you die to a Night Wing. Play with these a few times and you will quickly understand that this flyer is very much worth the points and lives up to the fluff.

Point taken, I was pseudo math hammering being honest. Havent seen/used them to be fair.

Does anyone rate dakka kitted Ork dakkajets?
Im considering 2 of them for my Orks, they can put out quite a bit of firepower but at Bs2 and AV(11?)10/10 do they cut it? Cash wise they cost a few € too :(

 ductvader wrote:

 DemetriDominov wrote:
What about FW models? Aren't there any fliers that are made specifically for Air to Air combat?

Crimson Hunter wins hands down in Air to Air Combat.

2 48" S8 AP2 shots and 2 36" S8 AP1 Lances

It rerolls failed attempts to damage against fliers.

It can be BS5 for a cost.

It can be given Night Fighting (situational) and a 5+ Precision shot...nice for destroying a particular Vendetta/Valkaryie in a squadron.

And Vector Dancer allowing you to fly circles around other fliers.

What about actually hitting fliers?

The imperium fields an impressive array of combat aircraft, and while on the table the vendetta outshines them they're all pretty cool.

 ductvader wrote:

 DemetriDominov wrote:
What about FW models? Aren't there any fliers that are made specifically for Air to Air combat?

Crimson Hunter wins hands down in Air to Air Combat.

2 48" S8 AP2 shots and 2 36" S8 AP1 Lances

It rerolls failed attempts to damage against fliers.

It can be BS5 for a cost.

It can be given Night Fighting (situational) and a 5+ Precision shot...nice for destroying a particular Vendetta/Valkaryie in a squadron.

And Vector Dancer allowing you to fly circles around other fliers.

But Vector Dancer doesn't do that, really; it's actually much more important for evading ground-based AA. A flyer that comes on the board after the Crimson Hunter does is going to be able to shoot it. Any non-Supersonic (edit: nm, they need "Hover", but Vendettas have it) Flyer has the ability to stop in its tracks and make a 180 degree turn, if it wants to, and the only price it pays for this is increased vulnerability to ground-based fire. But if we're concerned about ground-based fire, the Crimson Hunter's already dead. Night-fighting also tends to be irrelevant since flyers do virtually all of their shooting at other flyers in turns 2-4. The Hunter gets rerolls to damage flyers; the Vendetta simply automatically damages the Hunter on hit.

Even with an Exarch, the Hunter only has about a (edit: fixed) 41% chance of destroying a 3 HP jinking Vendetta when it fires at front or side armor while the Vendetta has the same 41% chance of destroying the Hunter when it fires at any facing. Of course, if the Hunter is snap-firing, it's only got a 7% chance of destroying a Vendetta. A snap-firing Vendetta has a 16% chance of killing a Hunter. The Hunter badly needed something like a 4++ against Skyfire weapons. Edit: Or Interceptor. Or something that actually makes it a credible AA platform. Right now it's much more vulnerable to ground fire than most flyers and is only about as likely to kill an enemy flyer as an enemy flyer is to kill it.

 Ratius wrote:

You really need to see the Nightwing in action, my friends cry and scream cheese all night long when they face these. I think these are the best anti flyer there is right now that is not appoc. It has agile, and vector dancer. armed with 2 Bright lances and 2 Shuriken Cannons (now Rending) stealth and shrouded +2 Jink Save anybody???

I run 3 of these and watch any other flyers cry because you can get behind them the second turn they are on the board and there is nothing they can do about it. Rear armor typically 10 is pretty much you die to a Night Wing. Play with these a few times and you will quickly understand that this flyer is very much worth the points and lives up to the fluff.

Point taken, I was pseudo math hammering being honest. Havent seen/used them to be fair.

Does anyone rate dakka kitted Ork dakkajets?
Im considering 2 of them for my Orks, they can put out quite a bit of firepower but at Bs2 and AV(11?)10/10 do they cut it? Cash wise they cost a few € too :(

I find that air vs air completely depends on who gets to shoot first. If you get to go second there is a strong chance you can drop the enemy flier that came on board the turn before.

As for the ork flyers, the dakka jet is just awesome. 9 TL BS3 S6 can drop most enemy flyers just by removing HPs. They also can do a number on most infantry especially if a Waagh has been called. Yeah they are only AV10 but for the points its a great alpha strike unit, almost disposable and pretty easy to make their points back because they are just so cheap.

What about the FW Tau Baracuda?

Dracoknight wrote:
What about the FW Tau Baracuda?

Decent and clearly better than the awful codex Tau flyers, but still not a Vendetta.

Also keep in mind that the Night Scythe, for the points, is pretty bonkers too. A twin-linked tesla-destructor on an armor 11 plane for only 100 points is nothing to sneeze at. Not to mention their transport capacity and other nifty bits.

#1: Eldar Crimson Hunter
My vote goes to Eldar's Crimson Hunter. Vector Dancer really makes the difference when dog-fighting.

Its true though that who gets to shoot 1st will most likely be the winner in dog-fighting. Which is why when I'm fighting IG players who gets to go 2nd, I'd almost always try to delay the arrival of my 3 CHs via the Autarch's ability. I can afford the delay cuz, at 1850pts, I already have 7 skimmers on the table to 'entertain' the opponent.

AV10 on all sides is really an issue at 1st, but after a few games, its not that big a deal, especially when the opponent is more concerned to bring down the Serpents which are carrying the scoring units.


#2: CSM Helldrake with Hades Autocannnon

Yeah..I know, who the heck takes Haledrake without Baleflamer, right? Well, I do. In fact, I usually take 2-3, & my opponent didn't feel much slighted & accuse me of being too cheezy since they are not armed with the much dreaded baleflamer...& so far they are pretty damn good too in securing the airspace.

The way I see it, CSM already has enough units that can take care of enemy ground targets. Helldrake fits the role for anti-air quite nicely - 1st with its vector-strikes, and 2ndly with its Hades Autocannon shots + Daemonforge re-rolls to the rear armor.

It is also very resilient with 5++ & It Will Not Die at 5+ to regain lost HP. Taking allied Chaos Daemons can even boost its 5++ to 3++ via Grimoire of True Names.