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MadMuzza wrote:

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
Hey guys, Im behind this game 100% and I look forward to your updates. My only request is to offer multiple chapters. The only chapter on an actual "Eternal Crusade" are the Black Templars, and in order to keep the title accurate you might alienate some marine players.

If anything I think having Deathwatch might work, 75% of the Space Marines enemies are Xenos - plus it gives people a chance to play as their favorite Chapter and doesn't kill the lore to much.

It really wouldn't. The deathwatch rarely commit more then one or two squads to any single thing. In the case of a situation requiring far greater numbers to combat it an actual chapter will be called in.

 Minx wrote:

Two less important wishes:
Please include friendly fire and please no endless click one button melee combat (try Drakan 1 on the PC to see how it should be done).

Friendly fire in an MMO, particularly with the inclusion of paying players... You're asking for a mess. No.

Yeah, friendly fire sounds like a bad idea. It'll just lead to endless griefing, even more than the current game's treatment of f2p players.

Oh, I wouldn't necessarily say that ... it works in Planetside, doesn't it? As long as the griefer is punished more (point penalty + automatic suspension if repeated behaviour) than the victim (short respawn time) ...

That said, it might still be a bad idea simply due to how 40k works. There will be lots of people who will want to go into close combat with their opponents, and having ranged combatants then having to choose between doing nothing or (potentially) killing both friend and foe in their attack doesn't sound very entertaining.

(although firing into melee could possibly give some sort of debuff to friend and foe alike, in addition to harming only the foe.. )

KalashnikovMarine wrote:I mean I'm not saying we need that kind of detail in modifying the in game weapons I'm just thinking Mel's idea has merit while keeping true to your play style, I'm thinking the armor and weapons mods of Mass Effect now, little variances in look, style, and benefits that come together to make you unique.

Now that you mention it, GW's Inquisitor RPG (free PDF available for legal download on their website) might have some inspiration to offer here:
- boltgun magazines with different capacity (15 shots straight mag, 20 sickle, 30 belt, 40 drum), balanced by perks such as reload times and jam chance
- lasguns with slightly different range, magazine capacity, firing modes (Necromunda-pattern), and even a variable charge setting (Triplex-pattern)
- different ammunition
- various attachments (laser sights, rangefinder, motion predictor)

And then we have the Deathwatch rules from WD #258, which added a boltgun silencer - together with a targeter and Stalker silent ammunition, you can turn an ordinary boltgun into an impromptu silenced sniper rifle. And as Sergeant Telias(sp?) from the Ultramarine Codex proves, this equipment is not unique to the Deathwatch.

KalashnikovMarine wrote:Further expansion of the above, you're an Ork and you're in a "Watch the world burn kinda mood" you can grab your burna and some cheap cigars from your locker and go for it stock, or you can swap out nozzles that increase dispersion of your flame shot, or up your range but narrow your stream of burning promethium vengeance. The former gives you better area damage, the latter boosts damage to individual targets. Or pull a Chesty Puller and mount a bayonet on it so you're really ready for CQC

I fully expect Ork customization to be one of the funniest aspects of the entire game.

Miguel you and your team are awesome.

We know youll do the true loyalists (Black Templars for the heretics who dont know) proud.

Where did they say that they were only doing Black Templars?

They didnt but you know, any true follower of the Imperium wouldnt miss them out.

Black Templars was the previous MMO. There's no guarantee of such a restriction in this MMO.

 unmercifulconker wrote:
We know youll do the true loyalists (Black Templars for the heretics who dont know) proud.

True loyalist? Yes clearly you eternal crusading though zealots are the clearly the most loyal of all in the Imperium, I think our Primarch Leman Russ said it best;

"You strive for victory. That is obvious. What may be less obvious is the nature of victory. There are circumstances in which you can destroy the enemy utterly, without loss to your own forces, and yet the victory may be his. In all situations, you must first decide on the nature of victory, and then take steps to secure it. Avoid the instinct of fight first and think later."

Leman Russ - (Meditations, Book VI)

 JakeCWolf wrote:

 unmercifulconker wrote:
We know youll do the true loyalists (Black Templars for the heretics who dont know) proud.

True loyalist? Yes clearly you eternal crusading though zealots are the clearly the most loyal of all in the Imperium, I think our Primarch Leman Russ said it best;

"You strive for victory. That is obvious. What may be less obvious is the nature of victory. There are circumstances in which you can destroy the enemy utterly, without loss to your own forces, and yet the victory may be his. In all situations, you must first decide on the nature of victory, and then take steps to secure it. Avoid the instinct of fight first and think later."

Leman Russ - (Meditations, Book VI)

Hothead Russ said "Avoid the instinct to fight first.."?

Well now I have 2 reasons to respect the Space Wolves.

To think before throwing your faith and rage at the enemies which seek to destroy humanity? Heresy!

I wonder how Chaplains will work in this game, will our voice chat enable buffs? I think that would be sweeeeet.

 unmercifulconker wrote:
To think before throwing your faith and rage at the enemies which seek to destroy humanity? Heresy!

I wonder how Chaplains will work in this game, will our voice chat enable buffs? I think that would be sweeeeet.

I can already see "Angry German Kid Plays Eternal Crusade Chaplain" meme videos on Youtube.

Ahahaha imagine STARTEN THE DROP POD ASSAULTEN YAAAAAAHH.

I'm sure I messed up somewhere, but it's the thought that counts, right?

Hehe, I love the German language for that.

An enemy shouting that towards you while dropping in with an army would be witnessing pure terror.

I still prefer flammenwerfer.



Nebelwerfer is a close second

German is such a wonderful language for making any order for anything sound important and slightly terrifying.

Here comes the second installment!

Please let us use tanks in both PvE and PvP instances. In fact, please make tanks part of the class system, where squads form up behind a tank to take cover and screen their movements to their next objective!

Also, an instance (perhaps guild housing?) where 0 gravity fighting would be awesome.

Rankings and Progression

Something I forgot to mention in my last post made it sound like the AI has to be incredibly well designed and thought out in order to function. Although that would be great, realistically, it would make more sense for a simpler AI system to be in place to help guild each faction fight each other. This ties into Rankings and Progression perfectly, because as players progress through the game, they get to have the unique ability to command sections of the battlefield. In an instance, this would be known as a "Commander" and would be attained at a relatively low rank (Colonel, Chaos Lord, Big Nob, ect.). In open world, it would be RvR by Zone and attained at a very high rank ( Lieutenant General, Nob Boss, War Seer, Ect.). The AI's mission is to give as much information to the battlefield commander and direct a course of action by plotting major objectives the commander must take, defend, or destroy. The perk of being a commander allows them to respond to bigger threats a single player may not be capable of: such as fighting back a Tryanid offensive on multiple fronts. Abilities such as giving NPC's commands, jamming enemy player maps (or even communications) ordering orbital/airstrike/artillery bombardments or the construction of supporting structures would provide a degree of support that even an advanced AI likely could not obtain.

Deciding a commander for an instance would be easy:

Obtain a minimum rank and que up to be a commander. A player is only the rank of a commander as long as they remain in the instance. It's as simple as that

Deciding a General is much harder, but with work could become a focal point in the game. Sedition, power struggle, and downright murder is a common part of just about every race in the 40k universe. Friendly fire may be acceptable in only the right situations. I'd believe that there are only two situations where it could apply.

1. In gladiatorial arena's.
2. Guild house intrusion.

This makes this next bit particularly exciting. Guild based Elections. Yes. Elections, with one addition: Bloodshed.

Why not honor the tradition of dueling between the upper castes and classes of each faction by combining these two exceptions to friendly fire? Politics can become a simple mini-game of who is the most ruthless and cunning commander. The objective is simple: Every two weeks, The Generals of the open world are either re-elected or determined unfit for service based upon popular vote. A vote is tied to a single account, but more than likely, a General will be dismissed of his rank every two weeks unless s/he is doing a fantastic job. Determining who will become a General is tied to who is the last man standing in a Sudden Death (1 Life, no re-spawns) gladiatorial arena, which more often than not will be a member of a high profile guild. Guilds can choose to act as a team in the arena and not be able to target each other until only members remain in the arean. They then cast their votes by martyring themselves for the individual that wants the position (so long as they are still alive). There can only be one victor. If for some reason the district goes unclaimed, the computer gains control of it until the next voting period. The arena would need to have a single round for every district that is eligible. To prevent anyone from gaining a monopoly over the system due to simply being the greatest Warrior (not the greatest General), the Guild House also has an inner sanctum, that if breached and successfully occupied before a victor is declared in the arena, the entire guild is DQ'ed, and any member inside the arena during this election period will immediately perish so long as a Non-guild member remains alive in the sanctum.

Therefore, if player's REALLY hate a single guild that abuses their power of being a general, they can rally against them, overwhelm their guild defenses, and take them out of the arena immediately.

At any other period of time, including grace times between arena resets, anyone who is not a guild member or invited into the Guild House is immediately exiled outside of it.When all voting is complete that day, guild's may choose to decide to open or close their doors, but no more inner factional fighting can occur until the next event.

 JakeCWolf wrote:

 unmercifulconker wrote:
We know youll do the true loyalists (Black Templars for the heretics who dont know) proud.

True loyalist? Yes clearly you eternal crusading though zealots are the clearly the most loyal of all in the Imperium, I think our Primarch Leman Russ said it best;

"You strive for victory. That is obvious. What may be less obvious is the nature of victory. There are circumstances in which you can destroy the enemy utterly, without loss to your own forces, and yet the victory may be his. In all situations, you must first decide on the nature of victory, and then take steps to secure it. Avoid the instinct of fight first and think later."

Leman Russ - (Meditations, Book VI)

Ah, Space Wolves I remember those guys. Didnt they blindly wipe out an innocent and loyal planet because a soon to be Chaosified Mortarion talked some crap about psykers at Nikea? And the Puppies brought a Rune Priest along to help?

 DemetriDominov wrote:
*extremely ambitious stuff*

As awesome as lots of this stuff would be, I think you're going beyond reaching for an extremely ambitious game to a full-on virtual world more complex than EVE and WoW put together. I think you might want to set your sights a little lower or prepare to be disappointed.

To be honest, I'd rather see a game that was ambitious but didn't quite get as far as it wanted to than a game that was not ambitious enough and was boring.

 Melissia wrote:
To be honest, I'd rather see a game that was ambitious but didn't quite get as far as it wanted to than a game that was not ambitious enough and was boring.

I agree Sister, seen more then a few games that where not ambitious enough, yet could have really been something, fly under the radar forgotten and unnoticed.

My thoughts exactly Mel. It's the only reason why I trust that the dev's are listening and taking what they will of our suggestions.'

I'm not expecting every suggestion to make it to even the Alpha version of the game, but if even one of my suggestions do, let me know - Name some General's adviser, a political rabblerauser, an instanced Bodygaurd or a Crafting Adeptus techpriest a Dominov for me will yah? Or all of them.. I get around... (Let me be Demetri though, please! )

Speaking of crafting I suddenly remember that Warp Watchers was very divided on this issue.

Nearly everyone wanted it, but the ways we wanted to implement it seemed extremely varied.

For example:

There was the old WoW style crafting: Professions that needed a grind to master, materials to get, and a wonky in game economy that really didn't get you much even if you did manage to get tons of gold. (We moved on quickly) We also figured that a universal crafting "profession" was probably not a good idea because the lore doesn't support it. We instead concluded that when players receive new gear, they aren't actually prying the armor off the cold dead hands of their enemies, but actually finding fragments of STC's, or are becoming recognized by their faction in some way to have the privilege of wearing shiny new toys. This then gives rise to my previous statement about customization. When a player receives this opportunity to upgrade their armor, they can open up their Auspex and communicate with their faction's Smith's (the IoM being the Ad Mechs). A screen pops up and suddenly we're in the fitting room where a rough outline of the new piece of gear is a hologram over our character. Players can twerk around with it, cleaving chunks off to show bare skin, add chains, add more armor, ect. The physical profile of the character's don't change, nor do the stats conveyed by the armor, so we can all still tell it's a Space Marine even if suddenly he has half a skirt of chainmail over his right leg for no other reason other than the player wanted it clipped to his belt. The finished product is delivered to them and can be altered as many times as necessary. This is acceptable with the lore because STC's come in fragments anyway and it's usually up to the AdMechs to try and deceiver what it is - we're just stepping into their minds and imagining them crafting what we want instead of our character's doing it for us.

This is a Godsend to everyone involved for two reasons: It means truly endless customization, without a huge grind to get armor that looks "pretty" but has terrible stats, and allows the art team to focus on a multitude of other things because the creative development team is no longer tied down making hundreds of thousands of pieces of armor and hundreds of sets of armor. All we need is a program that allows us to Sim our armor to the parameters of each class represented (A.k.a, a SoB will always look mostly like a SoB, even when her armor has been carved or robes added.) Give us a large pallet of textures, colors, and allow players to do the work of building sets of armor for you. I'm not talking about WAR's "paint the pain away" system of armor customization either. I really mean that players should have a GrimDark SPORE customizer for armor where we get a shoulderpad and can mold full chaos Icon's into it, or perhaps shift the icon relief to the left and have it look like a star burst coming out of the trim. Maybe even downsize it, cut it up, and have it be the trim of our armor. Updating this constantly with new textures is not only a must, but I would suspect that it could even be a cash cow. I'd certainly buy an upgrade that allowed me to have my optical implants glow a different color, or lightning criss-cross my armor like a true Night Lord.

There was also the EvE economy that revolved around resources. We figured that resources would most likely take the form of some sort of Requisition point, like a sort of high tech/etheral oil rig with your faction's flag and art all over it. Holding it gave your faction a bonus or even mail delivered "gold packets" a player could use to buy gear, equipment, and weapons. The more territory your faction held, the more resources you had available to spend, and the more visible the wealth of your faction became. Having visible battle damage, or losing your equipment altogether when you died seemed like a fair penalty, especially if the care package we received on a daily basis would allow us to replace one suit of armor, and perhaps more if your faction was doing well.

We were divided over if people should be penalized in instanced pvp situations, like WoW's battlegrounds and I personally believe that players should not fear losing anything unless they are in the open world where they are likely gaining many times their daily "allowance" in funding from simply playing the game. Having this type of penalty in an arena or PvP instance seems counterproductive, mostly because I loved the 8 hour wars that involved many dozens (even hundreds) of death's, and would rather waive a player based economy for well designed combat and a rich experience between hundreds of players.

That said however, don't neglect the chance of allowing players to be both creative and ambitious. That's truly what 40k is all about, so a player could definitely sell their well designed STC to other players or even the Warlords of the faction to become the NPC guards or grunts in the region they command. Players could buy it like fashion designer clothes, or have it be part of a guild's heraldry while allowing each player to add their own little bit of individualism. The sky's the limit here... Really, if there's anything to get down to a T in the game, customization and combat are the two most important factors of how this game pans out. Take a parallel road of WAR online when it came to RvR, but don't cross it's path by limiting our experience to coloring or fighting within the lines. Make us a digital pen with an Idiot's guide to Illustrator encrypted into it and then allow us to "draw" them for you. I'm sure that when given an opportunity to be as talented as some of the people are on this website, we'd all be surprised as to how incredible the game will look.

While I think that it's nice the dev's made accounts and posted some replys, I'm hesitant about whether that means they are actually listening. We've all gotten very excited that they posted and have bombarded them with questions, and I realize they must be very busy, but I've noticed they havn't deigned to answer any of the substantial questions. They've made their prescence known, said some kind words and assured us of the eventual introduction of sisters. No one has given us any answers to questions on the f2p system or anything content related. I understand that there are things they aren't allowed to say and questions they can't answer simply because they don't know yet, but I'm holding on to my rejoycement until the devs answer some more substantial questions.

@CthuluIsSpy

Don't forget the Panzerwerfer.

Oh, last thing for today.

There was a bit of variation over this opinion as well, but most of the Warp Watcher crew didn't really want a typical WoW RPG style of 1-41 level gear progression system. Relic did it right by doing a bit of both in Space Marine, but really, it was important to us that no matter what level a player was, he could still have a meaningful impact on the battlefield. A level 1 could definitely kill a level 41, but likely wasn't going to be able to on a regular basis because the 41 knew the ropes of the game, had special gear that increased his tactical capibilities, but no "special magic stats" other than a rosairus would stop a bolt round buried into a level 41's skull if the level one shot first.

That said: an IG, Orkboy, or other foot slogging grunt is going to likely need that Bolter instead of his standard rifle to penetrate any Adamantine armor, slow down a green tide, or outpace an Eldar corsair. But, a death by a thousand cuts is still a death.

 loota boy wrote:
While I think that it's nice the dev's made accounts and posted some replys, I'm hesitant about whether that means they are actually listening. We've all gotten very excited that they posted and have bombarded them with questions, and I realize they must be very busy, but I've noticed they havn't deigned to answer any of the substantial questions. They've made their prescence known, said some kind words and assured us of the eventual introduction of sisters. No one has given us any answers to questions on the f2p system or anything content related. I understand that there are things they aren't allowed to say and questions they can't answer simply because they don't know yet, but I'm holding on to my rejoycement until the devs answer some more substantial questions.

Thinking about it from a corporate perspective, while it's all fine and dandy that they're posting here, the moment gaming news websites like IGN and MMORPG.org find out that they're posting here, they're going to quote and cite the hell out of everything that's posted. The last thing that the dev team probably wants is for them to state something from an opinion or "maybe" perspective and have it translated into "fact" by media. And if it's the wrong things to post, receiving negative criticism and undue loss of publicity.

Enigwolf wrote:
Thinking about it from a corporate perspective, while it's all fine and dandy that they're posting here, the moment gaming news websites like IGN and MMORPG.org find out that they're posting here, they're going to quote and cite the hell out of everything that's posted. The last thing that the dev team probably wants is for them to state something from an opinion or "maybe" perspective and have it translated into "fact" by media. And if it's the wrong things to post, receiving negative criticism and undue loss of publicity.

Easy way to keep major game publications out of this is to not reveal that Eternal Crusade people are posting here at all.

I believe they haven't posted anything substantive is because a lot of the things we are concerned about are either still being ironed out or still on the drawing board so to speak.

The devs can come here and say they hate Pay2Win systems all they want, however his initial interview (can't unring a bell, he may regret some thing he said, but it's out there now) said otherwise and until a payment type plan is revealed showing something different I'm going to take what he says here with a grain of salt.

I swallowed the hype for Warhammer Online - hook, line and sinker -and then wondered if I bought the right game when I actually got it at retail, I won't do that here.

AWesker1976 wrote:

Enigwolf wrote:
Thinking about it from a corporate perspective, while it's all fine and dandy that they're posting here, the moment gaming news websites like IGN and MMORPG.org find out that they're posting here, they're going to quote and cite the hell out of everything that's posted. The last thing that the dev team probably wants is for them to state something from an opinion or "maybe" perspective and have it translated into "fact" by media. And if it's the wrong things to post, receiving negative criticism and undue loss of publicity.

Easy way to keep major game publications out of this is to not reveal that Eternal Crusade people are posting here at all.

I believe they haven't posted anything substantive is because a lot of the things we are concerned about are either still being ironed out or still on the drawing board so to speak.

The devs can come here and say they hate Pay2Win systems all they want, however his initial interview (can't unring a bell, he may regret some thing he said, but it's out there now) said otherwise and until a payment type plan is revealed showing something different I'm going to take what he says here with a grain of salt.

I swallowed the hype for Warhammer Online - hook, line and sinker -and then wondered if I bought the right game when I actually got it at retail, I won't do that here.

Exactly. But you never know, this is a public forum, and someone might leak it out. Which would disincentivize them from posting here anymore. They don't want to post anything substantive because they don't want to be mis-quoted, and that's a completely reasonable concern for them.