Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

As the title.

A scenario that came up in my mates battle report is that 2 penetrating hits from a single unit (Forgefiend) both scored Immobilised. Would this result in a wreck?

He says that it would result in a wreck because the vehicle is already immobilised by shot 1 for shot 2 to wreck it.

I say no, because both the shots are from one unit simultaneously, so the vehicle cant be 'already' immobilised. (note, im not his opponent)

Am I right?

The second immobilized result would take an additional hull point, so 3 total from that round of shooting.

A second immobilised result doesn't automatically wreck the vehicle. It just removes an additional hull point.

From my experience, the general method in practice is to apply the Immobilised results sequentially, so yes, 2 Immobilised results from one unit's shooting would mean 3 HP lost.

There is certainly an argument for them applying simultaneously, but it's generally seen as a loophole.

it just doesn't make sense to me to work that way since the rule say an 'already immobilised' vehicle

The unit wasn't already immobilised until it started being fired at.

The way I see it, it isn't already immobilised

This is just me seeing 'already' I guess...

When you rolled the second Immobilisation result, is the vehicle already Immobilised?

No, both the Immobilised results were rolled at the same time

IIRC Rolls for results should be done separately and not at the same time. or i may be thinking of squadrons.

I agree with 'nids the results are applied simultaniously so the second immobilized result simply removes one HP not 2. As the vehicle was not already immobilized. Whilst I think it maybe should remove 3 its a minor inconvenience to me to at best.

This has been debated before, and there's 2 schools of thought. You can do the rolls one at a time, which means your vehicle is kaput. Or you can do them simultaneously, which means it's not kaput. But, if you do them at the same time and 2 6s are rolled, then it explodes twice. IE, a rhino gets two pens that are 6s, the guys inside side take 20x str 4 ap- hits. Afterall, both explosions are simultaneous.

Our store plays it as one at a time, and 2 immobs from 1 unit does wreck it. I disagree with it... but I don't run our league.

I think the question of whether you roll them together or separately is a red herring. That doesn't matter so much; you can do it either way, and it's not supposed to make a difference. The RaW is unspecified (or broken, if you misinterpret "simultaneous" shooting to apply within the shooting sequence of a given unit). Consider, also, that if the vehicle is in a squadron, you explicitly HAVE to apply them one at a time. Suddenly immobilization is more dangerous because you have a buddy? What is this, 5th edition? (In 5th, immobilized squadron members were wrecked.)

No, we're asking about intent. What does "already" mean in this context? OP says it refers to before the shooting outright, as all shooting from one unit is simultaneous. (We should all know by now that this statement refers solely to things occurring OUTSIDE the shooting sequence - inside the shooting sequence, it must not apply, or else it wouldn't be a shooting sequence at all.)

I say that the intent of the rule is that an immobilization either actually immobilizes the vehicle, or else has the additional consequence of another hull point. You're not supposed to loophole the rule by being "doubly immobilized" - which also isn't defined, since the rule is written such that you can only be immobilized once.

Rolling is done one at a time. You only roll simultaneously as per fast rolling. So the results are applied sequentialy. The second immobilization would cause an additional hp loss.

 IHateNids wrote:
No, both the Immobilised results were rolled at the same time

Then you broke the rules, as you can only roll dice together when this has no effect on the game, apart from speeding it up.

This has an effect, therfore you must roll one at a time.

In practice, trying to apply simultaneous damage results from a single unit is as wonky as trying to apply all wounds from a wound pool simultaneously. You'd only ever be able to kill one model per shooting attack since at that simultaneous firing moment, only one model is the closest for allocation...

I ask this. If you get a immobile result and weapon destroyed by some logic presented here that only one would apply.

Alas we all know that both results pally without fail and you not only loose a weapon but your immobile. So apply one immobile result loose a hill point, apply the second loose two more hull points. Simple as written, not ambiguous and hiwpi.

Ironically this might happen once a year to an avid gamer. Never has happened to me , but it did happen to my buddy and he used the wreck as cover.

Lungpickle wrote:
If you get a immobile result and weapon destroyed by some logic presented here that only one would apply.

Please explain this - I don't see anything like that.