Instinctive Behaviour, Rage and moving into Synapse

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**Baktru**

So the following happens:

1) At the beginning of the movement phase my Raveners/Hormagaunts/other feeding Tyranids are not in Synapse.
2) They fail the Instinctive Behaviour roll and hence get Rage.
3) After moving and charging, they are now in Synapse range.

Do they still have Rage for this charge? I think so but I'm not sure..

**Happyjew**

This came up once before with no real consensus (that I recall). It depends on how you interpret "Not subject to the Instinctive Behaviour rule).

**PrinceRaven**

The FAQ doesn't really answer this question, but considering this:

Q: Do units who begin their turn more than 12" from any Synapse
Creature have to test for Instinctive Behaviour if a Synapse Creature
arrives from reserve within 12" at the beginning of the Movement
phase? (p33)
A: Yes – the model has begun its Movement phase outside of
synapse range.

I'd argue that entering Synapse does not remove the effects of instinctive behaviour, usually positive in the case of Feed and negative in the case of Lurk.
However it is also possible the entering Synapse does completely remove the effects of Instinctive Behaviour, which while usually not so great for Feeding units, it would be a great for Lurking units. Either way, you win some or lose some.

**meecham63**

As played with others tyranid players, I would agree with PrinceRaven : they begin their move outside any synapse zone, so if they failed their behavior test they keep their instinctive behavior till the end of the turn.

**PrinceRaven**

Actually looking over the rules again I've changed my mind, I think that once you enter Synapse range you're no longer subject to Instinctive Behaviour because Synapse states any unit in Synapse range "is not subject to the Instinctive Behaviour rule".

**meecham63**

Leadership test are made at the beginning of the movement phase.

"If the test is successful, the unit will act normally that turn. If the test is failed, the unit follows his instinct and will watch ~ or devour, depending on instinctive behavior indicated in his description ~ for this turn"

It's a traduction from french to english, the exact rule is p.33 of tyranid codex.

As I understand, a unit cannot change his behavior during the turn.

**Steel-W0LF**

The other side of the argument is:

-A unit outside of Synapse can go to ground, but as soon as synapse is restored they stand up and dont have any of the GtG penalties.

**Baktru**

Yes but that one at least is crystal clear. They get Fearless as soon as they are in Synapse.

It looks like all effects of IB should go poof inside Synapse range though. Mind you I asked specifically to see whether I could get Fearless rending Raveners charging wit 6 attacks by doing this.

Meh 5 will have to be enough.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also on IB...

I have my troops. One of my units, say a Hive Guard, is within 12" of just a single source of Synapse, say a Zoan. One of my units is outside Synapse. I roll IB for the one outside.

The Zoan tries to cast a blessing, Perils and dies.

The Hive Guard is now outside synapse and it is still the beginning of the movement phase... Does he have to roll now? I'd say no in light of the FAQ above, he did start the movement phase in Synapse, but not "his" movement phase or something.

**barnowl**

Based on the FAQ timing clarification, I would have to go with I.B test happen before reserve and powers since a Reserve arrival does not negate the need to test.

Looking at it from that perspective, if a reserve arrival does not counter I.B. for that turn, then simple moving in to synapse range would not be enough to counter I.B. This view is also strengthened by page 33 under Synapse Rule were is specificly points out that Synapse control only counters Falling Back, if in synapse at start of movement phase.

**PrinceRaven**

barnowl wrote:
Based on the FAQ timing clarification, I would have to go with I.B test happen before reserve and powers since a Reserve arrival does not negate the need to test.

Looking at it from that perspective, if a reserve arrival does not counter I.B. for that turn, then simple moving in to synapse range would not be enough to counter I.B. This view is also strengthened by page 33 under Synapse Rule were is specificly points out that Synapse control only counters Falling Back, if in synapse at start of movement phase.

On the other hand the FAQ could state that that even if you deep strike a Synapse creature (or otherwise move one into range of the unit) you still have to make the test before doing so, and have to keep it in range of said Synapse creature to remain being not subject to Instinctive Behaviour if you fail.

**meecham63**

Instinct Behavior test should be taken before the movement phase. So IMO, even if a Synapse Creature Deep Strike in synapse range of another unit, if this unit has failed its I.B test it must follow its instinct for this turn.

**rigeld2**

Even though the codex says a "unit that is within synapse range is not subject to the Instinctive Behavior rule ..."?

If you're not subject to the rule, why are you applying the rule?

**MarkyMark**

As above, and as someone else mentioned about going to ground and getting back up when synpase moves into range so you want to take the benefit of being in synapse and the benefit of rage when you wasnt in synapse?

**Baktru**

And once again GW's rules are pretty much messed up. Best as I can tell, RAW the critter who was not in synapse until I deepstruck a Trygon next to it still has to test. But the result doesn't matter as after that monent he's in synapse and so all the IB rules don't apply.

You'd think they can do better...

**meecham63**

To resume, the interrogation seems to be that if a unit begin a turn following its I.B, can it change it by entering in a synapse zone turn during the same turn.

**Bloodhorror**

meecham63 wrote:
To resume, the interrogation seems to be that if a unit begin a turn following its I.B, can it change it by entering in a synapse zone turn during the same turn.

Who have we been Interrogating for the answer to this question

?

**meecham63**

meecham63 wrote:
To resume, the interrogation seems to be that if a unit begin a turn following its I.B, can it change it by entering in a synapse zone turn during the same turn.

Who have we been Interrogating for the answer to this question ?

If you have a clear answer to this question, then you will answer many questions of this post.

**PrinceRaven**

Baktru wrote:
And once again GW's rules are pretty much messed up. Best as I can tell, RAW the critter who was not in synapse until I deepstruck a Trygon next to it still has to test. But the result doesn't matter as after that monent he's in synapse and so all the IB rules don't apply.

You'd think they can do better...

It still matters if you failed because if you moved out of Synapse range or the Synapse creature died you'd revert back to Instinctive Behaviour.

**barnowl**

PrinceRaven wrote:
Baktru wrote:
And once again GW's rules are pretty much messed up. Best as I can tell, RAW the critter who was not in synapse until I deepstruck a Trygon next to it still has to test. But the result doesn't matter as after that monent he's in synapse and so all the IB rules don't apply.

You'd think they can do better...

It still matters if you failed because if you moved out of Synapse range or the Synapse creature died you'd revert back to Instinctive Behaviour.

Never seen it applied that way, probably becuase to much book keeping.

**Abandon**

Synapse says "A unit that is within synapes range is not subject to the Instinctive Behavior rule (see below) and gains fearless..."

First off it is fearless regardless of IB while in range as that is clearly separate from the IB bit. As for being effected by IB, Synapse rather specifically states they are not. For any IB rule to overrule Synapse an any way it would have to specifically state in some fashion that synapse cannot overrule or that it cannot be overruled. As it does not, there is zero reason for IB to effect a Nid while it is in Synapse range. You do however make the test if it did not start in range as per the rule because you are not at that time within Synapse range. If the model is within range by the time you get around to moving it, IB will not effect its move. Same for shooting, running, charging, etc but you must stay withing range or it's back to IB (if you failed the test).

**Bloodhorror**

Would it be possible for a Unit of Hormagaunts to fail their IB Test. Assualt a unit and then pile in to have one of them within 12" or 18" of a Synapse or Swarmlord?

That way they get rage on the charge and when they have done all the attacks, they are Fearless and not subject to IB anymore?

**MarkyMark**

Yes as each test is taken and assuming perfect conditions meets the requirements

**PrinceRaven**

Bloodhorror wrote:
Would it be possible for a Unit of Hormagaunts to fail their IB Test. Assualt a unit and then pile in to have one of them within 12" or 18" of a Synapse or Swarmlord?

That way they get rage on the charge and when they have done all the attacks, they are Fearless and not subject to IB anymore?

Possible, but I doubt you'd be able to take advantage of that very often, and it's a risky tactic to try since it requires leaving leadership 6 Hormagaunts outside Synapse range for at least a turn.