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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/17 00:49:31
Subject: Vengeance Battery
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Executing Exarch
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Does a vengeance battery count as a friendly unit or unit in your army? Or alternatively counts as terrain similar to a quadd gun?
And how do you handle the following situations;
1) targeting with psychic powers both friendly blessings (say prescience) and maledictions (say puppet master)
2) placing blast templates (ie a unit is within 1" or a battery and you want to place a blast template on them which would cover your own battery)
3) who can come within 1" of the weapon?
4) Can a grey knight player use grand strategy to make it scoring?
5) Does it count as a "unit in your army" for whether you loose the game due to not having a model on the table?
If the battery is terrain like the quadd gun then how do you determine what army it is hostile to?
Sorry for the long list of questions but this fortification adds a lot of strange issues to the game as it cannot be occupied but is an automated weapon on a fortification.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/17 01:28:52
Subject: Vengeance Battery
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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1) You can not target terrain with Psychic powers (Save for PSA's against an occupied building). 2) Totally legal as the vengeance battery is a fortification. As such it is terrain and not a model or unit, so you can place blast markers and templates over it if you are targeting a unit that is close to the vengeance battery. 3) anyone, as the vengeance battery is terrain. 4) The vengeance battery is not a model or unit, it is terrain, (so no, you can not make it scoring with GS). 5) See #4 That said the vengeance battery is broken as terrain has no enemies. HIWPI the Weapons will autofire at the nearest unit from your opponents army that is in range and Line of Sight.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/07/17 01:29:45
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/17 01:29:05
Subject: Vengeance Battery
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Stormin' Stompa
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Aren't they a Fortification in 40K?
If so, then just replace "Vengeance Battery" with "Aegis Defense Line" and ask your questions again. The answers will be the same.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/17 01:34:08
Subject: Vengeance Battery
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Executing Exarch
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@DeathReaper
That is kind of what I thought. I guess it is one of those RAW doesn't really work so RAI.
@Steelmage99
The problem is that it automatically selects its targets. If you treat it like a quadd gun on an ADL then you should target your own units when they are the closest target.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/17 01:38:47
Subject: Vengeance Battery
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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Are the weapons on the Vengeance Battery Emplaced weapons? (If so you should treat them like the EW's on a Fortress of Redemption that autofire).
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/07/17 01:53:29
Subject: Vengeance Battery
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Fixture of Dakka
Vanished Completely
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Don't be sorry, the fortification rules are a little bit 'gray' to begin with and the Vengeance battery creates additional questions to be thrown onto the mess. I will try and answer a few of them for you, but some of the core fortification rules to begin with are screwy. This new 'impassable fortification' has just added more complication to the already pile of mess that are building rules. Onwards! 1) This fortification is labeled as an impassable building. Because of this flag it will follow all the same rules related to buildings of this type, even if they where purchased as part of your army. This would mean the psychic power in question would need to state it targets terrain, as opposed to something stating it targets a friendly or enemy model. Remember, terrain pieces are not models in the rule sense. Currently we are waiting for Game Workshop to tell us if we can substitute terrain type for unit type, but given that this is a permission's type game we have to go with the default of not-allowed until permission is granted by said rule writers. 2) In order to damage a building, you would need a special rule giving permission to do not follow the standard rules for damage. A few such rules do exist in the building section, but none are applicable as they all relate to buildings that are occupied. The only unique rules giving permission to target the battery relates to just enemy attacks, and mention nothing about friendly ones, meaning no permission has been created for friendly templates/markers to inflict damage. Honestly, with how badly the rule for this thing is written I could make an argument that even enemy attacks can not damage it but that would just further complicate things so lets just ignore that. Personally: I would count it as a hit to the building, and alter the damage rules to allow it to succeed. Edit: I see that I misinterpreted the purpose of this question, as I thought it was more along the lines of 'what happens if the marker falls over my fortification' instead of can I do this deliberately. The answer is still very much the same as you will find in the other sections of this long post. Being a piece of terrain, it does not benefit from the 'friendly model' status that would be an issue for friendly blast templates/markers. Therefore you can safely ignore this rule when it comes to targeting the enemy. 3) This one is at least simple. No rule exists preventing a model from moving within 1 inch of terrain pieces, that only relate to enemy models. The denial when it comes to impassable buildings stems from the units trying to move into it, or through the same board space as the building itself. Unless you have a specific rule stating this fortification can not be approached more then 1 inch, units can move around it as they see fit. 4) I would have to read the writing of grand strategy again, I am not entirely familiar with it. I have a feeling it will fall to the same problem as most abilities/rules, in that it will state friendly model or something similar. This would prevent the fortification, being a terrain piece, from benefiting from such a rule. 5) This one was answered by FAQ on other fortifications. Within the answer put forth it was shown that fortifications do not count towards your 'models on the table' so you can lose the game in such a situation. I wish I could simply copy and paste the question and answer into this post but formatting errors stops me. I still don't know if it is because of something within the site itself, or my browser, but it is very annoying. In any case you can simply find the relevant section by heading over to Game Workshops 'shrine of knowledge' and accessing it there.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/07/17 02:04:06
8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures. |
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