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I was told today that any gun with the special rule 'ignores cover' fails to yield any benefits against vehicles, is this the case?

Example Pathfinders shoot marklights at wave serpent, Riptide reduces mark light count to gain ignore cover, riptide fires at wave serpent and gets 3 pens.

Wave serpent makes jink saves against these????

What kind of save is Jink?

Incorrect. Cover saves on vehicles are taken in the same manner as cover saves on any other model (with the exception of area terrain, which doesn't apply here). If it is a cover save, then it cannot be taken against weapons with the "Ignores Cover" USR.

If Jink save is a cover save (it is), then "Ignores Cover" will ignore it. It sounds like someone was just cheating, or being stupidly stupid on purpose. I mean, c'mon, it's in the NAME of the RULE!

Rules as Written specifies that

Page 38 BRB

Ignores Cover: "cover saves cannot be taken against WOUNDS caused by weapons with the ignores cover special rule"

Glancing and Penetrating hits are not wounds.

Then Jink saves wouldn't work, as they are cover saves against wounds...

Jink saves are cover saves against armour penetration rolls in the case of vehicles not rolls to wound.

 Beelzaboss wrote:
Rules as Written specifies that

Page 38 BRB

Ignores Cover: "cover saves cannot be taken against WOUNDS caused by weapons with the ignores cover special rule"

Glancing and Penetrating hits are not wounds.

Page 75 - If the target (vehicle) is obscured and suffers a glancing/penetrating hit it must take a cover save against it exactly like a non-vehicle model would do against a Wound.

How does a non-vehicle model take a cover save against a weapon that ignores cover? That is how a vehicle model takes a save against it.

The Vehicle rules show that, for the purposes of saves, glances and pens are the same as wounds.

otherwise, vehicles could never take invuln or cover saves.

Thank you for this clarification... I'm glad to hear that vehicles do not ignore the special rule Ignores cover, what a god damn relief that was.

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Vehicle rules show that, for the purposes of saves, glances and pens are the same as wounds.

otherwise, vehicles could never take invuln or cover saves.

The latest BRB Errata changed the wording of Invulns to include penetrating and glancing hits.

This doesn't change the fact that the vehicle has to take its cover save exactly like a model with wounds. And if it takes a cover save when a model with wounds would not be able to it is NOT taking them exactly the same as a model with wounds. That is what the rules say

The house rule were i stay has it that ignores cover ignores regular obscuring cover saves, but jink saves still get taken.


This is because a jink save, which still a cover save, is acctually a save made due to pilot skill and speed.

Its the RAI way of things and just our house rule however.

Eihnlazer wrote:
Its the RAI way of things and just our house rule however.

House-rule yes (and from a fluff perspective makes some sense). RAI, no. If they did not want Ignore cover to affect Jink saves they would have either outright stated it, or made Jink an invul save.

I state RAI because there are some things in games (hive guard) that specifically state they ignore jink saves.

Whereas most things do not state they ignore jink saves.

Hive Guard Impaler Cannons do not mention Jink saves at all. The only thing they say in regards to cover is you must be in or touching terrain and the terrain between the two in order to get cover saves.

The FAQ only mentions KFF and Smoke Launchers (and wargear).

Ahh sorry, our nid player kept mentioning that they ignores jinks and i took it at face value.

They ignore Jinks, but not specifically Jinks.

Eihnlazer wrote:
Ahh sorry, our nid player kept mentioning that they ignores jinks and i took it at face value.

That's probably because they do, whether they ignore Jink when it comes to your Ignores Cover nerf house-rule is another matter entirely.

Jink is weird to me, i view it as more of an invul save to shooting attacks because its not a cover theres nothing obscuring you (except warbikers for ork lists) its the pilot/driver being a badass and dodging them lasers like a boss. First thing that went through my head when i saw Jink was considered a cover save was "Dafuq?"

Either way, something like this would be specifically mentioned if it were legal. Thats way too big of a bonus to not be out in the open about it (another GW playing of words issue people like to pull)

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Jink is weird to me, i view it as more of an invul save to shooting attacks because its not a cover theres nothing obscuring you (except warbikers for ork lists) its the pilot/driver being a badass and dodging them lasers like a boss. First thing that went through my head when i saw Jink was considered a cover save was "Dafuq?"

Either way, something like this would be specifically mentioned if it were legal. Thats way too big of a bonus to not be out in the open about it (another GW playing of words issue people like to pull)

Invunerable saves are generally something blocking the shot/blow, like a force field or something, Also consider that maybe they made it a cover save so that it would be stackable with Stealth/Shrouded.

So does your club rule that they get a jink save in close combat? When CC attacks ignore cover

Other weapons that get 'Ignore cover' are Templates (Try dodging a wall of flames), Blasts (Big Boom, lots of Debris going everywhere) and guided weapons, like the Tau with markerlights. Things that are hard to dodge, so why give them a jink save against them?

Does the majority of you club use skimmers?

No you dont get jink saves in close combat ever, so we dont ignore that.


We only allow jink saves from ranged attacks with the USR ignores cover. If it is ignoring cover from some other reason (markerlights, hive guard living ammo, etc) then the jink save is ignored.

DOOMONYOU wrote:
So does your club rule that they get a jink save in close combat? When CC attacks ignore cover

Other weapons that get 'Ignore cover' are Templates (Try dodging a wall of flames), Blasts (Big Boom, lots of Debris going everywhere) and guided weapons, like the Tau with markerlights. Things that are hard to dodge, so why give them a jink save against them?

Blasts do not "Ignore Cover" they modify how cover works slightly. CC attacks do not "Ignore Cover" either the BRB simply states that cover saves may not be taken against CC attacks. Neither of those examples invoke the "Ignores Cover" USR.

helotaxi wrote:
Blasts do not "Ignore Cover" they modify how cover works slightly..

Only if they are barrage do they modify how cover works.

Eihnlazer wrote:
No you dont get jink saves in close combat ever, so we dont ignore that.


We only allow jink saves from ranged attacks with the USR ignores cover. If it is ignoring cover from some other reason (markerlights, hive guard living ammo, etc) then the jink save is ignored.

Why jink is clearly a cover save, ignore cover would not allow it.

Blasts do not "Ignore Cover"

Sorry. I meant certain blasts found on some weapons in codex's. Like whirlwind launchers, Hell fury missiles, Colossus mortar, carcass shells on krieg mortars etc

and 'Ignores cover' means exactly what it means, you ignore the jink 'cover' save with any other bonusus that it has. You can't get around that in any way.

We only allow jink saves from ranged attacks with the USR ignores cover.

If you don't mind me asking what weapons and against what?

Eihnlazer wrote:



We only allow jink saves from ranged attacks with the USR ignores cover. If it is ignoring cover from some other reason (markerlights, hive guard living ammo, etc) then the jink save is ignored.

This sounds so wrong. I play DE and used to depend a LOT on cover saves but I would never consider trying to tell my opponent that their Ignores Cover USR weapons didn't, in fact, ignore cover... I'm pretty sure I'd be ostracized.